J-20 5th Gen Fighter Thread V

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weig2000

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FORBIN said:
Exact for T-50 also a shape matter it is very flat, flattened ofc more compact but not enough space for air inlets in S, only a half and the nozzle vanes visibles in part and this is bad for RCS.

In more 1st Russian stealth and these very sophisticared machines need time ofc, as for China...

J-20 shapes are also not good, i have yet posted, Plans are misaligned do bright spots for radar, 3 with canards !
And 1st stealth coating etc etc...

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Quite sure the two US fighters get a better RCS and for A2A combat normaly have the first shot, important for all combat.
To consider IRST F-22 don' t have and is more disadvantaged mainly in offensive position.
But IRST have a range much more inferior to radars.
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I think this topic has been discussed extensively here and elsewhere before. You can cling to your faith and my intention here is not to convince you otherwise. What I do have issue is that you reopen the subject and state it matter-of-factly.

The questions you raised about J-20's stealth are nothing new. Canards were almost always mentioned as the leading culprit of J-20 (un)stealthiness. I'm not sure how much additional RCS J-20's canards contribute to the overall RCS at J-20's level - likely not much. J-20 has canards, but F-30 has tail wings.... As for coating materials, it's really a faith-based arguments.

Here are some
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simulation study on J-20's stealthiness, relative to F-22, F-35, and T-50. I don't want to claim it's the be-all, end-all evidence and conclusion on the matter, but at least it's better than just eye-balling them, would you agree?

Technical Observations on the Prototype Design
  1. The J-XX/J-20 is a large fighter, similar in size to an F-111. This first-of-type aircraft presents with a large dihedral canard-delta wing configuration; with a pair of outward/rearward canted all moving combined vertical/horizontal tails; and, similarly large, outward canted ventral fins/strakes which, if all moving like the tails and retained on any production version, will make for some quite advanced capability options in the areas of controllability and manoeuvrability. There is little doubt this configuration is intended to provide good sustained supersonic cruise performance with a suitable engine type, and good manoeuvre performance in transonic and supersonic regimes.
  2. The stealth shaping is without doubt considerably better than that seen in the Russian T-50 PAK-FA prototypes and, even more so, than that seen in the intended production configuration of the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter.
  3. The J-XX/J-20 design appears to be largely built around the stealth shaping design rules employed in the F-22A Raptor:
  4. The chined J-XX/J-20 nose section and canopy are close in appearance to the F-22, yielding similar signature performance in a mature design.
  5. The J-XX/J-20 trapezoidal edge aligned engine inlets are closest to the F-22, though appear to be larger and employ an F-35 style DSI (Diverterless Supersonic Inlet) design, obviously intended to improve on F-22 inlet edge signature.
  6. The J-XX/J-20 wing fuselage join, critical for beam and all aspect stealth, is in shaping and angle very similar to the F-22, and clearly superior to both the Russian T-50 PAK-FA prototypes and the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter.
  7. The J-XX/J-20 flat lower fuselage is optimal for all aspect wideband stealth, and emulates the F-22 design closely.
  8. Planform alignment of the J-XX/J-20 shows exact angular alignment between canard and delta leading edges, and exact crossed (starboard to port, port to starboard) angular edge alignment between canard and delta trailing edges. Leading edge sweep is ~43°, clearly intended for efficient supersonic flight.
  9. The J-XX/J-20 nose and main undercarriage doors employ X-band optimised edge serration technology, based on F-117A and F-22 design rules.
  10. The aft fuselage, tailbooms, fins/strakes and axi-symmetric nozzles are not compatible with high stealth performance, but may only be stop-gap measures to expedite flight testing of a prototype.
  11. The airframe configuration and aft fuselage shape would be compatible with an F-22A style 2D TVC nozzle design, or a non-TVC rectangular nozzle designed for controlled infrared emission patterns and radio-frequency stealth.
  12. The airframe configuration is compatible with ventral and side opening internal weapon bays, and large enough to match or exceed, by some degree, the internal weapons payload of the F-22A Raptor.
  13. Internal fuel fraction is also likely to be high, given the fuselage configuration and large internal volume of the big delta wing. This indicates an intent to provide a sustained supersonic cruise capability, in the manner of the proposed FB-22.
  14. The PLA have not disclosed the engine type. There are claims that the Russians supplied supercruise capable 117S series engines, though, subject to the overall efficiency of the aircraft’s aerodynamics, these would likely not be sufficient to extract the full performance potential of this advanced airframe.
  15. The intended sensor suite remains unknown. China has yet to demonstrate an AESA radar, or an advanced indigenous Emitter Locating System (ELS). However, these could become available by the time this airframe enters production. Suitable Russian hardware is currently in late development and/or test.
General Conclusions

The size of the J-XX/J-20 airframe, and the self evident focus on supersonic persistence, suggests, at a minimum, an intention to provide a long range interceptor for anti-access operations in the Second Island Chain geography. It is likely any production design J-XX/J-20 will incorporate an aerial refuelling probe to further extend its large operating radius.

A stealthy, supercruising, long range interceptor would provide the PLA-AF with the capability to penetrate an opposing IADS to destroy assets like E-3 AWACS, RC-135V/W Rivet Joint, other ISR systems, and importantly, Air Force and Navy tankers. This would significantly complicate if not close down air operations from Andersen AFB and fixed basing in the Ryukyu chain, Japanese main islands, and Korean peninsula, during the opening phase of any contingency.

Naval task forces structured around CVBGs and operating within the 1,000 NMI plus radius of the J-XX/J-20 would be at significant risk of rapidly losing their E-2C/D AEW&C and EA-18G Growler Electronic Attack coverage during the opening phase of any contingency.

Any notion that an F-35 Joint Strike Fighter or F/A-18E/F Super Hornet will be capable of competing against this Chengdu design in air combat, let alone penetrate airspace defended by this fighter, would be simply absurd. The F-35 Joint Strike Fighter and F/A-18E/F Super Hornet are both aerodynamically and kinematically quite inferior to the as presented J-XX/J-20 design, and even the shape based VLO capability in the J-XX/J-20, as presented, will effectively neutralise any sensor advantage either type might possess against earlier Russian and Chinese fighter designs.
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I didn't mean to reopen the debate, but just to show that your opinion is far from consensus. This is just to balance your claims above. We should leave it as is and move on.

Cheers.
 
siegecrossbow

siegecrossbow

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According to one of the CAIC spokespeople interviewed by CJDBY, this year's Zhuhai Airshow will have a "20" theme. Confirmation that the J-20 will be showcased?

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Jeff Head

Jeff Head

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Pacific Sentinel said:
China's J-20 stealth fighter is being tested in the mountains close to the Indian border, but the new technology is intended for deployment in the Western Pacific, military expert Vasiliy Kashin told Sputnik.

Last week China's new fifth-generation Chengdu J-20 stealth fighter jet was spotted in the mountains of the Tibetan Autonomous Prefecture, close to the border with India.

The
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came after China's defense ministry warned India against deploying its supersonic BrahMos missile in the same region, and some analysts saw China's move as a response to India's deployment.

However, military expert Vasiliy Kashin told Sputnik that testing military equipment at high altitude has become a priority for the Chinese armed forces, regardless of where the technology is eventually deployed.
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is able to ensure the necessary balance of power because it has purchased Russia's S-400 anti-aircraft missile systems, modernized Sukhoi Su-30MKI fighter jets and is collaborating with Russia on the Sukhoi/HAL
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aircraft (FGFA/PAK FA) joint project."

While the testing has taken place in the mountains of Western China, deployment of the new stealth technology is more likely in the Western Pacific Ocean, Kashin said.

"The Chinese air force there already faces US F-22 and
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stealth fighters, furthermore the latter will be used by America's regional allies like Japan and Australia."

The J-20 plane is a twin engine fighter with stealth features which enable it to sometimes go undetected by radar unlike other fighter jets.

In July aviation magazine
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that China’s Chengdu Aircraft Company (CAC) has built two of the aircraft, following two prototypes and six known development aircraft that featured a successive series of refinements.

According to a recent report by
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, production is slated at two fighters per month and at this rate, China may be able to deploy 36 J-20 fighters by early 2018.

This story first appeared on
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& is reposted here with permission.
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Interesting. Sputnik posted this and it is now being picked up by Pacific Sentinel and other sources.
 
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