J-20 5th Gen Fighter Thread V

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Brumby

Major
I believe that the original words used were merely "enter service" rather than "IOC" -- but that interview I think was in 2009, so my memory might be a bit faulty.

I think over the years it has been interpreted and assumed by some people that it would be the Chinese military equivalent of IOC, though we obviously do not know what that explicitly constitutes.

edit: also, the original date mentioned back in the 2009 interview was "8-10 years" -- i.e.: 2017-2019, not 2017-2018.
We know what IOC means according to the US because there is a clear definition of what it means. I think it would be misleading to use IOC for the Chinese side because (i) it is not a term that is adopted by the Chinese and (ii) it would not be appropriate to call something having achieved IOC when we don't know what it means and have no way in determining such a status.
I think entering service is fine because the term is broad enough in meaning.
 

Blitzo

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We know what IOC means according to the US because there is a clear definition of what it means. I think it would be misleading to use IOC for the Chinese side because (i) it is not a term that is adopted by the Chinese and (ii) it would not be appropriate to call something having achieved IOC when we don't know what it means and have no way in determining such a status.
I think entering service is fine because the term is broad enough in meaning.

I think in this case it is definitely most sensible to use the term and phrasing that was spoken by the General himself at the time, though I can understand why a few defence analysts and pundits have interpreted that date to mean IOC.

Of course the natural question that arose even back in 2009 when the 8-10 year date was given, was what would the capabilities of the aircraft be when it entered service? This is something we won't know regardless of whether the term used was IOC or merely entering service.
 

getready

Senior Member
Time to reminisce and flashback. First flight 2011 started with bunch of busses congregating at Chengdu airport. We are now at the gate of IOC Who would have guessed? Gen He Weirong is right on the button He predict 2017-2018 IOC.
Of course she is a beaut and using cutting edge technology

Skywalker just publish J20 article on his blog
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It is the smoothest program sofar. No mishap, NO accident. No snafu. I guess they learn their lesson from J 10 program and of course the base industry has improve beyond anybody wildest expectation.
Nothing is better than the sweet revenge of success

And the usual critic scoff at the idea Here is their comment
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Douglas Barrie, an aerospace expert at the International Institute of Strategic Studies, noted that the J20's airframe resembled that of an abandoned Russian prototype, the MiG 1.42.

"I'm not sure that its even much of an impressive airframe," said Richard Aboulafia, another analyst. "It looks like something that might have been designed in 1985."

For the most part, China's combat aircraft programme has lagged behind its competitors in the west and Russia.

China's fourth-generation combat jet, the J-10, appeared in 2006 – but experts say it compares with western aircraft that went into production two decades ago. Beijing has also struggled to develop the Shenyang J-15 carrier-borne jet, reverse-engineered from the Russian-made Sukhoi 33.

China's fifth-generation fighter programme, experts say, faces several critical challenges as it moves forward from prototype stage to actual production.

For example, Chinese avionics – the software-controlled electronic systems which gave modern combat jets their cutting-edge mission capabilities – are believed to be a generation behind their US, European, Israeli and Russian counterparts.

Ruben Johnson predict it will take China 10 years for the engine Hmm let see
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there are always the eager anti china naysayers in the western media. They get paid to write what most of their readers want to hear. Can't blame them
 

MwRYum

Major
I think in this case it is definitely most sensible to use the term and phrasing that was spoken by the General himself at the time, though I can understand why a few defence analysts and pundits have interpreted that date to mean IOC.

Of course the natural question that arose even back in 2009 when the 8-10 year date was given, was what would the capabilities of the aircraft be when it entered service? This is something we won't know regardless of whether the term used was IOC or merely entering service.
Actually back then there was a cut-off time was given: 2020. So if they are really on schedule, we might have chance to witness the J-20 do a fly-by in 2019 National Day Parade...
 

FORBIN

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It is the smoothest program sofar. No mishap, NO accident
LOL :D ofc we know almost nothing...

And JH-7B and J-16, Y-8Q also ... what have they become...

Sometimes also mysterious with Russia but much less as China, which is the specialist for opacity

And after finaly appear Su-35S have a problem some fighters need back to plant for modifications and entry into service delayed, so very possible same for China and we know perfectly their problems with engines ...
 
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Air Force Brat

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LOL :D ofc we know almost nothing...

And JH-7B and J-16, Y-8Q also ... what have they become...

Sometimes also mysterious with Russia but much less as China, which is the specialist for opacity

And after finaly appear Su-35S have a problem some fighters need back to plant for modifications and entry into service delayed, so very possible same for China and we know perfectly their problems with engines ...

Yes Sir, all good points, some will never see the truth, but "natural progression" Is hard to beat, and when we see the stepping stones along the way, it is like drawing constellation in the sky, you may only have the bright shining stars, but having those you are able to "piece together" the big picture.
 

Equation

Lieutenant General
LOL :D ofc we know almost nothing...

And JH-7B and J-16, Y-8Q also ... what have they become...

Sometimes also mysterious with Russia but much less as China, which is the specialist for opacity

And after finaly appear Su-35S have a problem some fighters need back to plant for modifications and entry into service delayed, so very possible same for China and we know perfectly their problems with engines ...

Yes Sir, all good points, some will never see the truth, but "natural progression" Is hard to beat, and when we see the stepping stones along the way, it is like drawing constellation in the sky, you may only have the bright shining stars, but having those you are able to "piece together" the big picture.

So how does a Russian SU-35S problem became a Chinese engine problem? The Chinese engine programs are progressing further and faster than anyone else in the world in such a wide range of types from helicopters, Y-20, WS-10s, 5th gen types, rocketry, and not to mention the HGV engines in which neither the Russian or American could replicate China's latest successes. o_O
 

FORBIN

Lieutenant General
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The problem for Su-35S is not an engine problem and just an example.

Even if J-20 program worck possible but no sure China as all countries have also problems normal but it remains unknown ...

For engines i don' t understand you ? ofc they have and big problems for Chines engines since always or you live in one other planet ;)

After not being too indoctrinated ...
 
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FORBIN

Lieutenant General
Registered Member
There were hints in the Russian press last year that the Su-35S has been suffering from
numerous technical issues caused by its new and advanced flight/navigation and mission avionics.

As a consequence, the Su-35S fleet has been a subject of continuous modifications
undertaken at KnAAZ in order to be brought to a combat-ready status,

About a year late for IOC date

Air Force Monthly 10/2015 reliable mag with one excelent article ! on the Russian AF by a Russian specialist.
 

Air Force Brat

Brigadier
Super Moderator
The problem for Su-35S is not an engine problem and just an example.

Even if J-20 program worck possible but no sure China as all countries have also problems normal but it remains unknown ...

For engines i don' t understand you ? ofc they have and big problems for Chines engines since always or you live in one other planet ;)

After not being too indoctrinated ...

First Off Topic, but all our thoughts and prayers are with you and the French People, and indeed all Europeans who are facing the same "hateful actions" of the "haters":

Equation, Mr. Forbin is among the most honest and fair-minded gentlemen on this forum, and almost completely without bias?? He was simply relating that the Russians had issues with the SU-35, as well as PAK-FA, and we in the US had many similar issues with the F-35. So it is within the realm of possibility that the Chinese are having some issues that may be delaying the J-20??? NO?????:eek::eek:
 
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