J-20 5th Gen Fighter Thread IV (Closed to posting)

[rhino123]

Twenty bucks says a large part of the code from the F-35 (that was confirmed to have been hacked and stolen by the Chinese) winds up in it's Chinese twin-engined cousin.

Unfortunately my sinodefense account is too new to post pics or urls, although you could google image search "j-20 weapons bay revealed" and the third image will be a model of the J-20's bays at a Chinese airshow. But just going by the locations and sizes of the bay doors, in addition to where the intakes have to snake through, it is apparent that the weapons bays are very Raptor-esque.

May I ask... who confirmed that the chinese had hacked and stolen a large part of the code from F-35? Are you refering to firmware or hardware. And if it was firmware, then it had nothing to do with the outlook of the aircraft as you previously claimed. Secondly... episonage is everywhere, every country would want to know what they are up against and so they will try ways and means to get the latest, be it hardware or software of their 'enemy'... and these 'stolen' items, may or may not end up in the weapon system of the said country.

I did the search as you had mentioned... and did a search for raptor's weapon bay... frankly... I don't find them looking alike. And any similarity might just be because that was the most stealthy arrangement. Actually... where would you put a weapon bay in your aircraft by the way?

 

[MiG-29]

When the J-20 was first being envisaged (in the early 90's?), I doubt the PLAAF thought it would have anywhere near the number of tankers needed to support multiple strike packages going downtown. Fighters are normally initially designed for pretty narrow purposes actually, from what I've seen of fighters in the American inventory. Perhaps the Chinese are different, but I'd be surprised if they were. Last time I checked, the level of coordination between the PLAAF and PLAN was next to nothing in battle (circa late 00's), and something similar to that in the boardroom. In short, I doubt a PLAAF program would be influenced by a PLAN doctrine (not to mention that the internal fight in the PLAN between subs and carriers is on-going).
Heck, I could be wrong, but I certainly don't think so.



I'm quite different than most "new members".



I consider myself above such things. Although as you have already seen I can get too belligerent for my own good. XD

Here it is a forum, so most people, and i include my self in this, have their own opinion of what is the J-20.

You will find people saying is a fighter very agile, other will say it is an interceptor.
Some will say to you is light at empty weight, others that it is heavy.
Most of what you are reading here are opinions, with the exception of pictures and from time to time official information via official releases or confirmed Airshow information, most of what we write here are opinions.

Until people get official information, the especulation will remain, claims and counterclaims will also exist.

So to be honest have a good time enjoy here, the pictures here are really good and sometimes you get really good information.

Otherwise enjoy the Forum.

Me my self i like building models, now i am building a J-20 and a F-22, so i enjoy the pictures a lot.

If you believe the US claims that the J-31 used F-35, is simply one of the sources, however some Russian people say China used its own development.

Sometimes the truth is in the middle.

 

[Schumacher]

If China managed to steal classified codes of the F-35 software, then I wouldn't blame anyone except the defence contractor or government department responsible for the security of that code. It's no secret everyone is trying to steal classified information of another country, that is by default. If one country's firewall is inadequate, there is no-one to blame but themselves.

The PLA hasn't even admitted the existence of the J-20 officially, where on earth would you find an authorised and accurate model of its weapons bays?

Maybe after realizing 'fatty' F35 is becoming a dud, the US deliberately leaked the details as a ploy hoping to trick China into producing an overpriced, under-performing, behind schedule jet as well.
But looking at the sleek J31 vs the 'fatty' so far, it seems the plan has backfired, instead letting China learned how NOT to design a next-gen fighter bomber. LOL

 

[jobjed]

Maybe after realizing 'fatty' F35 is becoming a dud, the US deliberately leaked the details as a ploy hoping to trick China into producing an overpriced, under-performing, behind schedule jet as well.
But looking at the sleek J31 vs the 'fatty' so far, it seems the plan has backfired, instead letting China learned how NOT to design a next-gen fighter bomber. LOL

Aww... don't be so mean The F-35B and C's might underperforming in the aerodynamics area but the F-35A is still decent and quite capable of dogfighting, albeit it won't have an edge over 4th gen aircraft while dogfighting like the F-22 does with its TVC. Nonetheless, dogfighting is not part of its preferable strategy.

 

[MiG-29]

Aww... don't be so mean The F-35B and C's might underperforming in the aerodynamics area but the F-35A is still decent and quite capable of dogfighting, albeit it won't have an edge over 4th gen aircraft while dogfighting like the F-22 does with its TVC. Nonetheless, dogfighting is not part of its preferable strategy.

F-35 and J-31 both have small wings, the J-31 a more boxy fuselage and it is powered by old RD-93 for a total of 16000kg thrust, to think it will out perform a F-35 is so funny, basicly have the same design, just two engines because China has not engines suitable like F-135 and has to settle the design with RD-33 and it hopes it can reach the output yield of F-135 with perhaps two new engines.

Pretty Much both are Penguins

 

[Dizasta1]

I think its premature to start giving conclusions about J-31 or J-20.

It isn't a rule set in stone that an aircraft is developed before the engine is or the other way around. Just look at the Sukhoi T-50. It doesn't have the supposed high-performance, low-infrared signature engines, yet. And even so, the Russians are currently test flying the aircraft. What more, they have around four (unless I'm wrong) prototypes up and running on the AL-31s. Does that mean that the T-50 is inferior to the F-22?

Every country has their own design, development, research and production cycle. Who are we to say that the J-31 is inferior to the F-35. By the way, the later has been riddled with complications, failures and over-budget hikes. Also, there is serious debate going in the U.S Congress as to whether this aircraft is worth cancelling! Besides that, the Brits, Dutch, Nords and Canucks, have all either reduced the number of aircraft originally planned to be procured, or are debating on whether to reduce the number of F-35s, or even worse, cancel the whole procurement program all together.

China is progressing at lightning speed in its military build-up. They are progressing than any would have ever anticipated or predicted. Lets not take that away from them and cry like babies over it. In due time, soon enough, China will again surprise the world when it reveals its new, powerful, high-performance, low-maintenance and low-infrared signature engines, to the world. That is not something to be jealous of, or to be frowned upon, rather to be admired and encouraged. The same goes for Russia, who has been a stalwart in aircraft and engine design.

China and Russia ought work together as allies, rather than let their egos get in the way of something big. Something that the opponents of Russia and China, don't want to happen.

I watch with great anticipation, the way China and Russia are progressing. Both countries have come a long way from the time of the Second World War. For me, I think it is now time, time for China to rise as a Superpower, time for Russia to become a stronger Superpower. And this can be realized by working together, than against each other.

Give it time, we shall hear great news on the full certification of the 117S, WS-15, WS-20, WS-10 and WS-13. These engines would allow China and Russia to expand their Air Forces. I would love to see the Sukhoi T-50 and the Chengdhu J-20 at the Farnborough, Paris and Al-Ain air-shows, one day!

 

[MiG-29]

It isn't a rule set in stone that an aircraft is developed before the engine is or the other way around. Just look at the Sukhoi T-50. It doesn't have the supposed high-performance, low-infrared signature engines, yet. And even so, the Russians are currently test flying the aircraft. What more, they have around four (unless I'm wrong) prototypes up and running on the AL-31s. Does that mean that the T-50 is inferior to the F-22?

T-50 does not fly with Al-31s, it flies with a modern engine called 117, which is different to both 117S powering Su-35 and Al-31M2, by 2016 is supposed it will fly with the definitive type 30.

 

[Deino]

T-50 does not fly with Al-31s, it flies with a modern engine called 117, which is different to both 117S powering Su-35 and Al-31M2, by 2016 is supposed it will fly with the definitive type 30.

But You surely will agree that the 117S is de facto a "heavily modified development" of the trusted AL-31F-family incorporating technology from but it is not a version - as the name might suggest - of the true AL-41, which was used in the MFI prototype !

Deino

 

[FirstImpulse]

Thanks for the sweet satellite photos guys, that's the kind of thing I've been looking for from this forum. I'll shut up about its size now.

On the F-35... it's nowhere near being canceled. Turkey just up and bought a few more C models, and South Korea is considering it for their fighter competition as well.
When it comes to dogfighting, it has an ace up its sleeve that no other craft has at the moment...

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Sure, EODAS probably won't be the trump card it is claimed to be by the engineers who built it, but it does give Ace Combat levels of situational awareness, which greatly aid the OODA loop when dogfighting, and also in many other situations.
The technology is far ahead of any other IR system on any other fighter. And when it comes to manuverability, the F-35 doesn't have the TVC of the Raptor, but still manages to out turn the aircraft it's replacing, if only by a bit.

 

[rhino123]

Thanks for the sweet satellite photos guys, that's the kind of thing I've been looking for from this forum. I'll shut up about its size now.

On the F-35... it's nowhere near being canceled. Turkey just up and bought a few more C models, and South Korea is considering it for their fighter competition as well.
When it comes to dogfighting, it has an ace up its sleeve that no other craft has at the moment...

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Sure, EODAS probably won't be the trump card it is claimed to be by the engineers who built it, but it does give Ace Combat levels of situational awareness, which greatly aid the OODA loop when dogfighting, and also in many other situations.
The technology is far ahead of any other IR system on any other fighter. And when it comes to manuverability, the F-35 doesn't have the TVC of the Raptor, but still manages to out turn the aircraft it's replacing, if only by a bit.

Frankly speaking, I do not trust anything the developer had claimed to be and was shown to the public... I myself is involved in consumer electronic R&D, being a designer as well as a mechanical engineer in the developement of those products, and when you ask me about my company's product, I will tell you that it is the best in the market, nothing came close to beating it, and I would show you heaps of supposedly technical information that backs up my claim, as well as I will shoot video of my product in action and show to forums and stuff like that claiming it as a fact.

Well... that don't flies here. I am sure that F-35 is more than meets the eye, people say that it underperformed, I don't think so. People claim that whatever tech shown on youtube and claim that there is a trump card and that is EODAS or whatever, I say, that is what the developer or the Americans wanted you to believe, so that you can develope strategies or technical speciality to counter that 'trump card' but in actual fact, they have other things up the sleeve.

As to whether the technology is far ahead of any other IR system on any other fighter, that is a big sentense to use, because none of us here knows, unless you have first hand information and hands on experience on the American's F-35, Chinese J-20/ J-31, Russian's T-50/ Su-35 and even European's Typhoon and French Rafale. No one knew, all was claimed by developer (see my example).