J-20 5th Gen Fighter Thread IV (Closed to posting)

[lllchairmanlll]

View attachment 11906J-20

So this was actually PL15 (or PL-12D we dont know the real name yet) rather than earlier PL12. "Several improved versions have been under development at 607 Institute, including

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with improved guidance system, PL-12C with foldable tailfins for internal carriage by the 4th generation fighters (e.g. J-20) and PL-12D with a belly air inlet and a ramjet motor for long range attack similar to PL-21 (see below). It has been speculated that PL-12C/D may have further evolved into PL-15."

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A photo shows J-11B carrying new medium range missile

 

[lllchairmanlll]

I believe it is safe to claim that Chinese medium range missiles need to be somewhat bigger in size to carry more fuel so they can match the same range of its american counterparts. However, we discussed this particular issue before and most of us agreed that J20's later prototypes (from P2011) equipped with improved and more developed main weapon bay that is larger, deeper than the one on F22. So the solution is very simple, larger weapon bay, larger missile, same capability (number of missile and range), and better upgrade potential for future missile.

 

[rhino123]

View attachment 11907
Do you see how missiles in F-22 are packed more tightly than that of J-20? Maybe the J-20's internal weapons bay needs to be re-designed.

As Deino had put it nicely and it is already OT, I will not go deeper. But I would strongly suggest that, next time when you come in to claim something, please have proof or reference to your claim.

1) You say that the Chinese missile are bigger because of weaker solid fuel technology, where is your proof in that?
2) Like the American, the PL-12 is a family. The first AMRAAM only had a range of 55-75km, it improved tremendously from version C onward. The PL-12/ SD-10 is the first in the Chinese 'AMRAAM', there are further development too. And their range reached around 100km+ which is quite okay.
3) There are no references or official announcement or proof of how many missile the J-20 can take, so how can you immediately claim that the J-20 can carry less missiles? By just hitting on a few blurrish pictures? And do note that J-20 is still not in mass production, so anything can change.
4) The missiles that F-22 had shown are a mixture of long-range and short range missiles, J-20 can also carry smaller shorter range missiles to complement her longer range PL-12X missiles.

 

[SpicySichuan]

As Deino had put it nicely and it is already OT, I will not go deeper. But I would strongly suggest that, next time when you come in to claim something, please have proof or reference to your claim.

1) You say that the Chinese missile are bigger because of weaker solid fuel technology, where is your proof in that?
2) Like the American, the PL-12 is a family. The first AMRAAM only had a range of 55-75km, it improved tremendously from version C onward. The PL-12/ SD-10 is the first in the Chinese 'AMRAAM', there are further development too. And their range reached around 100km+ which is quite okay.
3) There are no references or official announcement or proof of how many missile the J-20 can take, so how can you immediately claim that the J-20 can carry less missiles? By just hitting on a few blurrish pictures? And do note that J-20 is still not in mass production, so anything can change.
4) The missiles that F-22 had shown are a mixture of long-range and short range missiles, J-20 can also carry smaller shorter range missiles to complement her longer range PL-12X missiles.

On your last point, both the J-20 and F-22 carry "smaller missiles" like heat-seeking ones on their side weapons bays. For F-22, the two under-belly weapons bays are for AMRAAMs or ground-attack weapons. Also, do you have a picture of J20's internal weapons bay from model 2011 onward?

 

[rhino123]

On your last point, both the J-20 and F-22 carry "smaller missiles" like heat-seeking ones on their side weapons bays. For F-22, the two under-belly weapons bays are for AMRAAMs or ground-attack weapons. Also, do you have a picture of J20's internal weapons bay from model 2011 onward?

Suggest you looked at the second picture that Deino had attached.

Now you can count how many AMRAAM they have, right?

Also, I don't have the photo of the weapon bay, that's why I ask you, how you know how many the J-20 can carry. Make sense?

 

[Hyperwarp]

Regarding the missiles themselves, using open source material:
AIM-120D range is classified IIRC. Only official statement is "50% greater range than the AIM-120C-7". Speculated max range is over 180km And don't forget, this is not a Ramjet missile like the Meteor.

AIM-120 -

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,

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Length : 3.66 m (Length)
Diameter: 17.8 cm
Weight: 150.7 kg
Finspan & Wingspan: 44.7 cm (AIM-120C# onwards)

SD-10A -

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,

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Length: 3.93 m
Diameter: 20.3 cm
Weight: 200 kg
Finspan: 75 cm
Wingspan: 67 cm

EDIT: SD-10 still uses those smokey burns while AIM-120 uses a nice smokeless burn. One thing interesting about the SD-10 according CATIC is that its speed is over Mach 5 compared to most other A-to-A missiles which are at Mach 4+.

 

[SpicySichuan]

Suggest you looked at the second picture that Deino had attached.

Now you can count how many AMRAAM they have, right?

Also, I don't have the photo of the weapon bay, that's why I ask you, how you know how many the J-20 can carry. Make sense?

What do you mean? It is still 6 AMRAAMs, but J-20 is likely to carry only 4 BVRAAMs, despite being a much bigger plane.

 

[vesicles]

What do you mean? It is still 6 AMRAAMs, but J-20 is likely to carry only 4 BVRAAMs, despite being a much bigger plane.

you need to provide evidence to back up your claim. And when people ask you for that, you can't simply ask them to show you pics. You are the one making the claim. Hence you should be the one providing the evidence. If you don't have any photos, then don't make such claim. And based on the language you use, it is likely you don't have any evidence for the claim that you made. Then what you said is simply baseless. Back up your claim with solid evidence.

 

[rhino123]

What do you mean? It is still 6 AMRAAMs, but J-20 is likely to carry only 4 BVRAAMs, despite being a much bigger plane.

Seriously bro. Do you not understand what I am trying to say, or are you trying to be funny?
Where is your proof that J-20 can only carry 4 BVRAAM? Are there any references to your claim or just picking data out from the air? As far as I know, the Chinese hasn't even announce how many missiles J-20 can carries and so far, there are only some blurry photos of the opened weapon bay and frankly speaking, does anyone of us know exactly how many missiles the aircraft can carries in its belly?

For example:

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Look at the photo there, can you safely tell me, how many missiles can J-20 carry? If you are observant enough, you should notice that the weapon bay is pretty deep and there seemed to be more space in it to fit at least one more missile in each compartment. So it will be three each and added up to be six.

Of course we cannot see it this way, because no body know for sure how many missiles the engineers designed the weapon bay to carry.

 

[SpicySichuan]

Seriously bro. Do you not understand what I am trying to say, or are you trying to be funny?
Where is your proof that J-20 can only carry 4 BVRAAM? Are there any references to your claim or just picking data out from the air? As far as I know, the Chinese hasn't even announce how many missiles J-20 can carries and so far, there are only some blurry photos of the opened weapon bay and frankly speaking, does anyone of us know exactly how many missiles the aircraft can carries in its belly?

For example:

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Look at the photo there, can you safely tell me, how many missiles can J-20 carry? If you are observant enough, you should notice that the weapon bay is pretty deep and there seemed to be more space in it to fit at least one more missile in each compartment. So it will be three each and added up to be six.

Of course we cannot see it this way, because no body know for sure how many missiles the engineers designed the weapon bay to carry.

Dude! Stop that attitude. What I am asking is for you to clarify things up, and you really sound like you are up for a fight. So yes, I was speculating, but based on the picture of F-22 Deino provided, the internal weapons bay of F-22 is very different and much more compacted than that of J-20. For the picture you provided, it really seem like the internal weapons bay can hold only 4 BVRAAMs. The "space for one more missiles" you mentioned is occupied by the fins of the other two missiles, and the weapons bay "look deep" because the bay doors are open downward, creating a wrong impression in human vision. Yes, if the fins of the PL-12/15 are foldable, then then PLAAF can possibly fit 6 like the F-22 (then I will agree with you). At this moment, I will still be conservative and estimate that the J-20's under-belly can only hold up to 4 BVRAAMs. However, the under-belly weapon bays of Model 2011 onward might be very different, and I am waiting for more leaked photos. In this sense, you might be right.