J-20 5th Gen Fighter Thread IV (Closed to posting)

[vesicles]

That's like saying if he doesn't have a sword or lance than he is not an infantrymen. With modern all aspect dog fighting missiles, even close in maneuvering dog fighting will really be conducted far outside the envelope of any gun.

All the gun would do is to give the pilot a false sense of hope that he could conceivably not lose and die if he doesn't win the missile fight. It's sort of like giving a modern infantryman a pike..

It has been proven in real combat many many many times that a gun is absolutely essential for a fighter. This is not a question of perception, but a fact proven in actual combats and by actual combat pilots. It's like modern soldiers are also issued knives and taught how to fight with knives although the primary weapon has been projectile weapons for a long long time.

 

[siegecrossbow]

It has been proven in real combat many many many times that a gun is absolutely essential for a fighter. This is not a question of perception, but a fact proven in actual combats and by actual combat pilots. It's like modern soldiers are also issued knives and taught how to fight with knives although the primary weapon has been projectile weapons for a long long time.

Those lessons were learned during the Vietnam War, when missile technology was still relatively primitive. When is the last kill by a gun in recent combat? I think it actually happened during skirmish between Syria and Israel or Iran-Iraq War. All the kills since Gulf War were with missiles.

 

[TerraN_EmpirE]

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Missiles Fail Chuck, And Air to Air missiles are a specialized tool that only target air targets. Guns are multirole they don't care if it's ground or Air based.

 

[vesicles]

Those lessons were learned during the Vietnam War, when missile technology was still relatively primitive. When is the last kill by a gun in recent combat? I think it actually happened during skirmish between Syria and Israel or Iran-Iraq War. All the kills since Gulf War were with missiles.

But most of the modern air combats have been fought between fighters that are generations apart. The inferior fighters have absolutely no chance of getting close to the advanced ones. However, the situation would be completely different when fighters with similar advancement meet. When they cannot lock on their opponents because of the advanced electronic systems and maneuverability each side possesses, it is inevitable that they will get close since both advance toward each other. Then when they get close, they will have to depend on guns just like in the Vietnam War.

 

[vesicles]

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Missiles Fail Chuck, And Air to Air missiles are a specialized tool that only target air targets. Guns are multirole they don't care if it's ground or Air based.

Exactly! All military in the world has the same saying: technology fails and you need to know how to fight without it. For a fighter plane, the most fail-proof weapon system would be the gun.

 

[Air Force Brat]

That's like saying if he doesn't have a sword or lance than he is not an infantrymen. With modern all aspect dog fighting missiles, even close in maneuvering dog fighting will really be conducted far outside the envelope of any gun.

All the gun would do is to give the pilot a false sense of hope that he could conceivably not lose and die if he doesn't win the missile fight. It's sort of like giving a modern infantryman a pike..

Ding, Ding, Ding, Ding, Chuck's repetition of the "#1 all time dumbest statement about fighter aircraft",,,,,,,OK genius, then why pray tell? does the F-22, and the F-35A, as well as the Flankers, F-16s, and F-15s have an internal gun? and the reason they left it off the F-35 B and C is because they are too chunky and want to give them some operational options to carry mission specific weapons, a gun pod is an option, and yes the J-20 will also very likely carry a gun. The F-4 was a miserable failure as an A2A platform, due to missles that malfunctioned, and NO GUN! The A-7 was a turnin-burnin little fool with a great gun, is was Death on the bad guys. Fighter Aircraft NEED a gun, the newest USAF aircraft tasked A2A, the F-35A ThunderHogge II will have a great gun, so you think you know more than the USAF and LockMart, those kind of Assumptions make an AXX out of U and ME!

 

[plawolf]

In the age of all aspect stealth, when detection and engagement ranges between 5th gen opponents are likely to be vastly reduced compared to previous generations; when advances in countermeasures and the RCS reducing features of stealth fighters make the ability of radar guided missiles to successfully lock-on and destroy stealth targets highly questionable; and when 5 gen fighters are themselves only carrying a pair of IR guided missiles each normally, ullagising the end of the gun seems pretty...illogical, to put it politely.

 

[TerraN_EmpirE]

And for the PLAAF it's just standard practice. all of there fighters carry a gun. It's a simple fall back.

 

[chuck731]

Ding, Ding, Ding, Ding, Chuck's repetition of the "#1 all time dumbest statement about fighter aircraft",,,,,,,OK genius, then why pray tell? does the F-22, and the F-35A, as well as the Flankers, F-16s, and F-15s have an internal gun? and the reason they left it off the F-35 B and C is because they are too chunky and want to give them some operational options to carry mission specific weapons, a gun pod is an option, and yes the J-20 will also very likely carry a gun. The F-4 was a miserable failure as an A2A platform, due to missles that malfunctioned, and NO GUN! The A-7 was a turnin-burnin little fool with a great gun, is was Death on the bad guys. Fighter Aircraft NEED a gun, the newest USAF aircraft tasked A2A, the F-35A ThunderHogge II will have a great gun, so you think you know more than the USAF and LockMart, those kind of Assumptions make an AXX out of U and ME!

Shut up.

 

[chuck731]

Exactly! All military in the world has the same saying: technology fails and you need to know how to fight without it. For a fighter plane, the most fail-proof weapon system would be the gun.

For an infantryman the most fail proof system would be a gladius.