J-20 5th Gen Fighter Thread IV (Closed to posting)

[MiG-29]

This. The J-20 is a light strike bomber--basically a bigger, longer-ranged, and marginally more expensive F-35. The J-31 is an air-superiority fighter--basically a smaller, shorter-ranged, and somewhat cheaper F-22.

In PLAAF missions, I'd expect to see the J-20 used to launch standoff strikes against high-value targets under conditions of air parity or even air inferiority. The J-31 would be used more in the role of air-superiority first, and some CAS if necessary.

According to the Russian experts a fifth generation should be mutirole, if the Chinese share the same opinion then J-20 must be like that, striker and fighter

 

[MiG-29]

These assertions are highly speculative and out of touch with Dr. Songs specific concerns in developing the J-20 to basically achieve parity with the F-22, to assert otherwise is to ignore not only his position paper, but the design of the J-20 as well, and while it is rather obvious that the J-31 is designed as a nimble air-superiority aircraft, it will likely complement the J-15 on Naval duty, IMHO, not necessarily compete with the J-20 as a PLAAF aircraft. Cheers AFB

Things are not so simple brat.
The US even knows that having less types of aircraft means some aircraft will do even recce missions.

The US has now only F-18E/Fs doing what in the 1980s A-7, A-6 and F-14 were doing, and in the 1990s A-6, F-18 and F-14 did.

Russia today has a Su-27 flanker based air fleet, Su-34 is supposed to do what Su-17, Su-24, MiG-27 and Tu-22M did in 1980.
PAKFA is supposed to replace Su-27s and MiG-29.

Very likely by 2020 China will follow suit so that means J-20 very likely will do missions today are done by Su-30 or JH-7.


It is likely thew Chinese wil use both jets like the US is using F-35 and F-22.

Russia has skipped the F-35 for now because PAKFA is supposed to replace the MiG-29 too.

If Russia builds a F-35/J-31 type aircraft will be only for export most likely.

If J-31 is purely for export then J-20 will do also like PAKFA strike missions

 

[Quickie]

The PLAAF will first look for a stealth air superiority fighter before it even start to consider building a stealth strike bomber. It's hard to imagine the PLAAF would chose the J-20 over the J-31 for its strike bombing capability, while knowing that the J-31 is a better air superiority fighter and even offer the J-31 for export.

 

[Equation]

Things are not so simple brat.
The US even knows that having less types of aircraft means some aircraft will do even recce missions.

The US has now only F-18E/Fs doing what in the 1980s A-7, A-6 and F-14 were doing, and in the 1990s A-6, F-18 and F-14 did.

Russia today has a Su-27 flanker based air fleet, Su-34 is supposed to do what Su-17, Su-24, MiG-27 and Tu-22M did in 1980.
PAKFA is supposed to replace Su-27s and MiG-29.

Very likely by 2020 China will follow suit so that means J-20 very likely will do missions today are done by Su-30 or JH-7.


It is likely thew Chinese wil use both jets like the US is using F-35 and F-22.

Russia has skipped the F-35 for now because PAKFA is supposed to replace the MiG-29 too.

If Russia builds a F-35/J-31 type aircraft will be only for export most likely.

If J-31 is purely for export then J-20 will do also like PAKFA strike missions

Hey Mig, will there be a Fifth generation or naval stealth fighter for the Russian Navy? Can the T-50 PAK FA become part of the Russian naval carrier battle group (just curious)?

 

[latenlazy]

This. The J-20 is a light strike bomber--basically a bigger, longer-ranged, and marginally more expensive F-35. The J-31 is an air-superiority fighter--basically a smaller, shorter-ranged, and somewhat cheaper F-22.

In PLAAF missions, I'd expect to see the J-20 used to launch standoff strikes against high-value targets under conditions of air parity or even air inferiority. The J-31 would be used more in the role of air-superiority first, and some CAS if necessary.

Um. Not what i meant. If it was a light strike bomber, the J-20 would essentially need a stealthy behind to make it past enemy defenses. There are a lot of reasons why the J-20 isn't, such as not needing ventral fins (at least preliminarily) for high alpha stability if it were, and the fact that you could save a lot of money and fulfill such a role with a stealthy UCAV.

I'm not saying the J-20 couldn't or won't fulfill that role, but to limit the design exclusively to a light striker mission profile is, I think, blatantly ignoring every other aspect of the design that seems to point to an air superiority fighter.

 

[MiG-29]

Hey Mig, will there be a Fifth generation or naval stealth fighter for the Russian Navy? Can the T-50 PAK FA become part of the Russian naval carrier battle group (just curious)?

Up to what i have read, yes T-50 has the potential of being navalized but that is not now a fact since Russia only has an aircraft carrier, now the Su-33 is the only naval fighter until MiG-29s will do the job after 2015.
So you can say PAKFA still is an air force project

The naval T-50 is like the Light fifth generation fighter, it might be developed but is not a fact yet, it will depend in if Russia develops their projected aircraft carriers or the needs arises

 

[Deino]

Once again - and hopefully finally in regard to "laarger than 23m !" - I played around a bit with the latest image from Xi'an-Yanglian !

What do You think ?

Deino

 

[airsuperiority]

Once again - and hopefully finally in regard to "laarger than 23m !" - I played around a bit with the latest image from Xi'an-Yanglian !

What do You think ?

Deino

honestly i think your method is really the best that we can do for now, and probably almost safe to say it's accurate. As I've mentioned in one of the earlier posts:

this image is the best measurement and most effective estimator in terms of accuracy. by using known measurements of aircraft such as j-11, j-10, then comparing this to the dimensions displayed in the photo, we can get a ratio of image:actual. using this ratio, we can do the math for the j-20 displayed in the photo. then you get your final answer

if we use comparisons this way, we eliminate most of the potential confounds utilized in other methods.(consistent distances, direct comparisons with known control(j-15/su-27 airframe), mathematical ratio, etc)
other than official measurements, i don't see how this method can have errors unless we want to be very anal to the very nanometer, where then we might account humidity, heat, position of sun, rotation of earth, angle of satellite, light..but those are neglible and pointless

 

[Player99]

This. The J-20 is a light strike bomber--basically a bigger, longer-ranged, and marginally more expensive F-35. The J-31 is an air-superiority fighter--basically a smaller, shorter-ranged, and somewhat cheaper F-22.

I almost thought I was reading another site, especially an Indian site, when I read the above statement in such a darn sure tone! I rubbed my eyes hard and said to myself: "No, I'm still here on Sino Defense... But has this gentleman or lady just come out of a coma or something and missed all that's been discussed here for more than a year?!"

 

[MiG-29]

Once again - and hopefully finally in regard to "laarger than 23m !" - I played around a bit with the latest image from Xi'an-Yanglian !

What do You think ?

Deino

A detail. pixels are not accurate at all, why? simply if you zoom them you see colored squares that do not give you a real measurement of where the jet begins and where it ends.
So here is where the subjectivity plays the biggest role, you will chose the dimensions of each jet according to your liking

Su-35 measures Length, m 21.9
Height, m 5.9
Wing span, m 14.7

See Su-35 it has no pitot tube, therefore a size range, of a 20-21 meters range is more accurate, why? because the Su-33 looks almost the same size so hardly J-20 will be 1.5 meters shorter than Su-27 and.77 meters shorter than Su-33, specially where you can not see where it does begin or end.

If the chinese TV is right J-20 is 20+ more meters. since i do not believe 20 meters is the real number, it must be 20 + something, same weight 17 i do not believe it is 17000kgs i doubt it.