J-20 5th Gen Fighter Thread IV (Closed to posting)

[latenlazy]

A detail. pixels are not accurate at all, why? simply if you zoom them you see colored squares that do not give you a real measurement of where the jet begins and where it ends.
So here is where the subjectivity plays the biggest role, you will chose the dimensions of each jet according to your liking

Su-35 measures Length, m 21.9
Height, m 5.9
Wing span, m 14.7

See Su-35 it has no pitot tube, therefore a size range, of a 20-21 meters range is more accurate, why? because the Su-33 looks almost the same size so hardly J-20 will be 1.5 meters shorter than Su-27 and.77 meters shorter than Su-33, specially where you can not see where it does begin or end.

If the chinese TV is right J-20 is 20+ more meters. since i do not believe 20 meters is the real number, it must be 20 + something, same weight 17 i do not believe it is 17000kgs i doubt it.

Actually, if you knew what you were talking about, you would know that each pixel represents a certain square footage of area, which means the height and width of each pixel is a specific size. Given that Deino's picture was about twice the resolution of the one I used, that would mean that each pixel represents about a .25 by .25 meter square. That means that it's unlikely for Deino's estimates to be wrong by more than .25 meters, if she picked wrong by one pixel. That is called an error, and that error exists for every type of estimate that uses a picture. In this case, the error is pretty small.

I also like how you seem to perpetually doubt Chinese sources but believe Russian ones. Nice. (Clue, I'm not saying either are trustworthy enough to be taken at face value).

all of us are imaging things, when you give me AVIC`s page with official dimensions i will say you did not imagine, Sukhoi does not yet give dimensions for PAKFA yet only Lockheed Martin does for F-22, the rest is especulation and in that you are included as well as me, for that i say range size range better than a fixed number i always have said J-20 is between 20.5-21.5 meters, never an exact number

That doesn't mean that some methods are more accurate than others at estimating. If you're going to have an estimate in mind, best to be informed by the better method.

EDIT:

Oh hey, look what I found at Keypub.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Now I'm pretty sure the Su-33's 21.19 meters is without pitot.

 

[Engineer]

A detail. pixels are not accurate at all, why? simply if you zoom them you see colored squares that do not give you a real measurement of where the jet begins and where it ends.
So here is where the subjectivity plays the biggest role, you will chose the dimensions of each jet according to your liking

Su-35 measures Length, m 21.9
Height, m 5.9
Wing span, m 14.7

See Su-35 it has no pitot tube, therefore a size range, of a 20-21 meters range is more accurate, why? because the Su-33 looks almost the same size so hardly J-20 will be 1.5 meters shorter than Su-27 and.77 meters shorter than Su-33, specially where you can not see where it does begin or end.

If the chinese TV is right J-20 is 20+ more meters. since i do not believe 20 meters is the real number, it must be 20 + something, same weight 17 i do not believe it is 17000kgs i doubt it.

You are projecting. Your subjective is at play since CCTV stated J-20 is 17 meters which you conveniently chose not to believe, just like what you typically do whenever there is an evidence which contradicts your claim. What we have here is a classical case of

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

, where your own intention is to choose aircraft dimensions according to your liking so you incorrectly assume others to do the same.

The aircraft beside J-20 is a

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

, not

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

. So, the length of Su-35 is irrelevant. Additionally, the J-20 is still clearly shorter than J-15 even when you factor in errors of estimation due to pixelation.

 

[Engineer]

all of us are imaging things, when you give me AVIC`s page with official dimensions i will say you did not imagine, Sukhoi does not yet give dimensions for PAKFA yet only Lockheed Martin does for F-22, the rest is especulation and in that you are included as well as me, for that i say range size range better than a fixed number i always have said J-20 is between 20.5-21.5 meters, never an exact number

Correction. You are the only one here imagining things by insisting on the J-20 being longer than what a satellite photo showed. The satellite photo already showed J-20 to be shorter than 21.19 meter, debunking the 23 meter estimation made by the West. Side tracking the argument to the use of range versus a fixed number is a fallacy of

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

because it doesn't make the West's estimation any less incorrect. It is as simple as that.

The aircraft has been designed to deliver a highly stealthy configuration at low cost, with a heavy weapons load capability over a wide combat radius, says Avic. The model is a single-seat, twin-tail, twin-engine aircraft with a high wing, like the real aircraft seen in unattributed photographs on the Internet. As described at the show, the fighter has a typical takeoff weight of 17.5 metric tons, is 16.9 meters (55.5 ft.) long and 4.8 meters high with a wingspan of 11.5 meters.


Avic says the J-31 has a combat radius of 1,250 km (780 mi.) on internal fuel or 2,000 km with external tanks. Maximum speed is Mach 1.8, takeoff distance is 400 meters and its landing distance 600 meters

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

this give a clear idea those 20 meters and 17 tonnes are just a range and not exact dimensions

by the way the speed shows their DSI are as conventional as F-35, well at least J-31, but i guess J-20 won`t be different

The external appearance of 31001 is very similar to F-35, so it is not a surprise that their top speed is the same. The J-20 on the other hand looks nothing like a F-35. Furthermore, J-20 is also a heavy weight air superiority fighter and not a medium size one. As such, the maximum speed is going to much higher just like other heavy weight air superiority when compared to their medium size counterpart.

 

[MiG-29]

That doesn't mean that some methods are more accurate than others at estimating. If you're going to have an estimate in mind, best to be informed by the better method.

EDIT:

Oh hey, look what I found at Keypub.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Now I'm pretty sure the Su-33's 21.19 meters is without pitot.

By Su-27 being larger 21.9 without pitot tube only makes larger J-20, if the chinese TV is right, i guess it is around 20.8, like J-31 is 16.9 or almost 17.

J-20 more or less should weigh 17+ like T-50 if the chinese TV is right

 

[latenlazy]

By Su-27 being larger 21.9 without pitot tube only makes larger J-20, if the chinese TV is right, i guess it is around 20.8, like J-31 is 16.9 or almost 17.

J-20 more or less should weigh 17+ like T-50 if the chinese TV is right

Except the plane in the picture is the J-15, which should be the same length as the Su-33, which we know is shorter, and which Sukhoi lists as 21.19 meters. Furthermore, no one's measuring from the pitot in that satellite picture. It's literally invisible at that resolution.

 

[MiG-29]

Except the plane in the picture is the Su-33, which we know is shorter, and which Sukhoi lists as 21.19 meters. Furthermore, no one's measuring from the pitot in that satellite picture. It's literally invisible at that resolution.

the pixelation you make is always unaccurate, since you calculate where the jet ends and where it starts. you only see squares.


If the Chinese TV is right, J-20 is in 20 meters range, which is plausible, Su-33 is larger than 21 meters.
So J-20 should be at least 20.0-20.99 meters where in that region? i do not know.

Now the data for J-31 came from AVIC at the airshow China 2012, so it is official, but see the picture posted said 16 meters, and the official source said 16.9 at the show.

Where the Chinese TV took the dimensions from for J-20?

these can be a guess contrary to J-31 who knows.

 

[latenlazy]

the pixelation you make is always unaccurate, since you calculate where the jet ends and where it starts. you only see squares.

It's unlikely you'd be wrong by more than one or two pixels when choosing from a picture like that.

 

[MiG-29]

It's unlikely you'd be wrong by more than one or two pixels when choosing from a picture like that.

look everyone choses where it begins and where it starts, is not an exact measurement.


Like i said if the chinese TV is right, J-20 must be 20 meters and fraction, judging by the satellite picture you need more accuracy, in my opinion it is around 20.8, since Su-33 is almost 21.2 meters, if you wish to believe is larger or shorter that is fine, like i said every one applies some degree of bias, included me and you.

we do not need to argue, or discussed repeatively, let us wait time will tell, any way some day we will know for sure

 

[latenlazy]

look everyone choses where it begins and where it starts, is not an exact measurement.


Like i said if the chinese TV is right, J-20 must be 20 meters and fraction, judging by the satellite picture you need more accuracy, in my opinion it is around 20.8, since Su-33 is almost 21.2 meters, if you wish to believe is larger or shorter that is fine, like i said every one applies some degree of bias, included me and you.

we do not need to argue, or discussed repeatively, let us wait time will tell, any way some day we will know for sure

*rollseyes* In that satellite pic there are only so many pixels that could delineate where the plane starts and ends. Given that the real size each pixel represents can be roughly calculated, so can the error. What the error is telling us is that the J-20 is almost definitely below the 21 meter mark, because even when we are being generous about which pixel the J-20's nose begins and where it ends, it is still below 21 meters. You could be totally biased towards the J-20 being longer, and it would still end up below 21 meters mark. That's what Deino's picture tells us. Arguing that people are biased will not change the results. Neither will discussing range and trying to peg it above the reasonable range which the picture will allow.

 

[MiG-29]

*rollseyes* In that satellite pic there are only so many pixels that could delineate where the plane starts and ends. Given that the real size each pixel represents can be roughly calculated, so can the error. What the error is telling us is that the J-20 is almost definitely below the 21 meter mark, because even when we are being generous about which pixel the J-20's nose begins and where it ends, it is still below 21 meters. You could be totally biased towards the J-20 being longer, and it would still end up below 21 meters mark. That's what Deino's picture tells us.

if you quote me from a year ago i always say J-20 was around 21 meters, later i said it is between a range of 20.5-21.5 meters, and the reasoning is based upon the famous picture where the J-20 is compared to F-22 and the author said 21.11 meters, the canopies of both jets are about the same size.
Since they are aproximations, there is always a margin of error.

Now since the chinese TV says it is 20 meters, i guess very likely is near 20.8 and close to 21 meters.

that is my guessing