J-20 5th Gen Fighter Thread IV (Closed to posting)

[AssassinsMace]

I remember reading in another forum right after one of the Baidu satellite launches failed, the anti-China faction said it was a disaster that China couldn't recover from. Same was said of the KJ-200 crash. In the Key forum recently one of their foremost members who takes the position China can't do this or do that asked if there were side bays on the J-20. Want to use logic? Well let's conclude the naysayers are coming from wishful thinking and not from an informative position.

 

[thunderchief]

J-20 wouldn't be able to reach its full potential without WS-15, but I wouldn't call that disastrous since 3D printing is supposed to save a lot of weight. The first batch is going to be involved in a lot of trainings and tactics development anyway. As long as there is no need to fly far or go for long patrol, fuel and payloads can be exchanged for kinematic performance. The Al-31 being more plentiful should enable the first batch to fly more intensely, saving the more precious WS-15s for front line J-20s.

You give to much credit to 3D printing For example , as I recall , F-22 has around of 4200 kg of titanium in it . With 3D printing this could be reduced by 100 , max 200 kg . And that is not such a big deal . Main advantage of 3D printing is less waste and faster production , not weight reduction .

With AL-31 J-20 would need to keep afterburners lit if it wants to achieve and to keep supersonic speed . On the other hand , F-22 and especially PAK FA would just need to lit afterburner , achieve speed and height , and then turn it off but remain supersonic up to half hour .

 

[latenlazy]

You give to much credit to 3D printing For example , as I recall , F-22 has around of 4200 kg of titanium in it . With 3D printing this could be reduced by 100 , max 200 kg . And that is not such a big deal . Main advantage of 3D printing is less waste and faster production , not weight reduction .

With AL-31 J-20 would need to keep afterburners lit if it wants to achieve and to keep supersonic speed . On the other hand , F-22 and especially PAK FA would just need to lit afterburner , achieve speed and height , and then turn it off but remain supersonic up to half hour .

Actually, the weight savings can be far more than that depending on what the titanium is being used for. Titanium parts can sometimes be bigger than they need to be due to limitations in the milling process, especially since not all titanium parts are being used for their load bearing properties. Furthermore load bearing parts can afford to be smaller and laughter if the can be printed in shapes milling cannot achieve.

 

[Engineer]

You give to much credit to 3D printing For example , as I recall , F-22 has around of 4200 kg of titanium in it . With 3D printing this could be reduced by 100 , max 200 kg . And that is not such a big deal . Main advantage of 3D printing is less waste and faster production , not weight reduction

You recalled wrong then. Main advantage of 3D printing is weight reduction. From a post on this very board:

Currently AVIC Laser's 3D Laser Direct Manufacturing technology can be used to make large structural parts using titanium alloy, high-strength steel, high temperature & high strength steel. Compared with conventional processes, this technology could save up to 90% of materials and costs. And if the forged titanium parts on an American F-22 were made using the Chinese 3D printing technology, around 40 percent of the weight can be reduced.

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With AL-31 J-20 would need to keep afterburners lit if it wants to achieve and to keep supersonic speed . On the other hand , F-22 and especially PAK FA would just need to lit afterburner , achieve speed and height , and then turn it off but remain supersonic up to half hour .

Such claim is based on an assumption that J-20 is still using old manufacturing techniques that do not see weight savings. Weight saving from 3D printing combined with the sacrificing of payload and fuel will allow the J-20 to attain the designed kinematic performance. Moreover, the ability supercruse is related to drag and inlet efficiency, not weight. Mind you, the Concorde being a much bigger and sluggish aircraft can still supercruise at Mach 2.0. So, I wouldn't be so quickly to assert J-20 to be unable to supercruise with Al-31 engines.

 

[kwaigonegin]

You give to much credit to 3D printing For example , as I recall , F-22 has around of 4200 kg of titanium in it . With 3D printing this could be reduced by 100 , max 200 kg . And that is not such a big deal . Main advantage of 3D printing is less waste and faster production , not weight reduction .

With AL-31 J-20 would need to keep afterburners lit if it wants to achieve and to keep supersonic speed . On the other hand , F-22 and especially PAK FA would just need to lit afterburner , achieve speed and height , and then turn it off but remain supersonic up to half hour .

Actually I think the Raptor can achieve supersonic at altitude strictly just on military power alone i.e W/O the use of afterburners.

 

[airsuperiority]

Actually I think the Raptor can achieve supersonic at altitude strictly just on military power alone i.e W/O the use of afterburners.

You're right. Supercruise means the ability to fly supersonic without the assistance of afterburners.

 

[cyan1320]

In the Key forum recently one of their foremost members who takes the position China can't do this or do that asked if there were side bays on the J-20.

haha I remember that. there were a few Washington expert analysts that commented on the initial J20 pictures saying the plane did not have any bay doors (side or bottom) because it looked too seamless. Where are those experts now?

 

[Lion]

haha I remember that. there were a few Washington expert analysts that commented on the initial J20 pictures saying the plane did not have any bay doors (side or bottom) because it looked too seamless. Where are those experts now?

They are now hiding,crying and reflecting their ignorant. :rofl:

 

[Air Force Brat]

Actually I think the Raptor can achieve supersonic at altitude strictly just on military power alone i.e W/O the use of afterburners.

Yes, the Raptor, although we all know we're not to be making comparo's, the Raptor always comes up because it represents in the real world, what the fifth generation stealth aircraft was to be, at this stage there are lots of pretenders and wanna-bees, but only one Raptor, everyone else's eiteration is a work in progress, hence the main reason that early observers were not expecting weapons bay doors on the bottom or sides on an early prototype of the J-20, but the two flying prototypes are more in keeping contruction wise with technology demonstrators where some of the ancillary hardware is incorporated to see how well it integrates into the actual aircraft, hence the term, "technology demonstrator"!

To attribute that to ignorance or fear on their part sounds like your own little 7th grade, we're gonna rule the world fantasy, it really is inaccurate, it is even more irrelevant, due to our advanced and IN-Service weaponry, if in the past some pernicious EVIL had seized power in the US, the known world would be in ruins, so I would remind you, Superior Strength requires superior good will and restraint to exercise it justly, and the rule of law is the glue that has held all of our civilizations together, that and the good graces of a loving God, IMHO. brat

 

[kwaigonegin]

Yes, the Raptor, although we all know we're not to be making comparo's, the Raptor always comes up because it represents in the real world, what the fifth generation stealth aircraft was to be, at this stage there are lots of pretenders and wanna-bees, but only one Raptor, everyone else's eiteration is a work in progress, hence the main reason that early observers were not expecting weapons bay doors on the bottom or sides on an early prototype of the J-20, but the two flying prototypes are more in keeping contruction wise with technology demonstrators where some of the ancillary hardware is incorporated to see how well it integrates into the actual aircraft, hence the term, "technology demonstrator"!

To attribute that to ignorance or fear on their part sounds like your own little 7th grade, we're gonna rule the world fantasy, it really is inaccurate, it is even more irrelevant, due to our advanced and IN-Service weaponry, if in the past some pernicious EVIL had seized power in the US, the known world would be in ruins, so I would remind you, Superior Strength requires superior good will and restraint to exercise it justly, and the rule of law is the glue that has held all of our civilizations together, that and the good graces of a loving God, IMHO. brat

Were you responding to me or cyan? LOL I'm pro Raptor all the way. Even my avatar is a Raptor albeit a lesser threatening now and it AINT easy for a squid to admire the AF.


Our drill instructor was at the end of his rope: An airman’s ineptitude was driving him crazy. Getting in the airman’s face, he demanded, “Whoever told you to join the Air Force?!”

Snapping to attention, the airman proclaimed, “The Navy recruiter, Sir.”

—James Hetlinger, Webb City, Missouri