J-20 5th Gen Fighter Thread IV (Closed to posting)

[kwaigonegin]

The Chinese are backsliding on this one. They have proclaimed awhile back all the fifth gen will use ONLy indigenous engines. So now, they are eating their words and continue to use the Russian ones.

I don't believe in any WS15 and WS10B. The track record for WS10A is Poor (As of 2013, still a lot of issues), No words/progress on WS13 for couple years and therefore No reasons to believe otherwise for the so called upgrades or whatever in the future.

To be fair J-20 is far from IOC and operational militarily. If the J-20 is still flying ALF-31N when actual batch production starts then I have to say I would agree with you and would be sorely dissapointed.

 

[Quickie]

And what I was pointing out earlier is that it's entirely possible that the prototypes were designed to be compatible with both, so that when they switch engines, no matter how different they are, they won't have to redesign the plane.

My opinion is this is entirely possible. Mechanically, it's about making the dimensions compatible to both engines. Avionics would need to be reprogrammed for a different engine and this could be as straightforward as linking up to a laptop.

 

[latenlazy]

The Chinese are backsliding on this one. They have proclaimed awhile back all the fifth gen will use ONLy indigenous engines. So now, they are eating their words and continue to use the Russian ones.

I don't believe in any WS15 and WS10B. The track record for WS10A is Poor (As of 2013, still a lot of issues), No words/progress on WS13 for couple years and therefore No reasons to believe otherwise for the so called upgrades or whatever in the future.

Well we don't know if the J-20 won't use only Chinese engines. It's still in early testing.

 

[TyroneG]

Well we don't know if the J-20 won't use only Chinese engines. It's still in early testing.

I am just saying it doesn't have a track record to implement fully a Chinese 3 generation engine successfully yet as WS10A still has issues.

Track record is a big deal.

 

[latenlazy]

I am just saying it doesn't have a track record to implement fully a Chinese 3 generation engine successfully yet as WS10A still has issues.

Track record is a big deal.

It's not like the GE F101 or PW F100 were perfect from day one. The WS-10A may not be perfect but it's far from the failure that you're suggesting it is. Track records are also not static.

 

[TyroneG]

It's not like the GE F101 or PW F100 were perfect from day one. The WS-10A may not be perfect but it's far from the failure that you're suggesting it is. Track records are also not static.

Sure, PW F100 takes time. But when the more advanced version than PW F100 entering production, does PW F100 still has production issue?

Do you agree if China cannot solve the WS10A production/reliable issue then most likely it cannot solve the WS15 production/reliability issue?

 

[latenlazy]

Sure, PW F100 takes time. But when the more advanced version than PW F100 entering production, does PW F100 still has production issue?

Do you agree if China cannot solve the WS10A production/reliable issue then most likely it cannot solve the WS15 production/reliability issue?

Do you agree that if the Los Angeles Lakers can't build a championship team next year they will never be able to build a championship team?

 

[Engineer]

That would be disastrous because of low T/W coefficient . AL-31 simply is not fifth generation aircraft engine and J-20 would be underpowered and way below competition.

J-20 wouldn't be able to reach its full potential without WS-15, but I wouldn't call that disastrous since 3D printing is supposed to save a lot of weight. The first batch is going to be involved in a lot of trainings and tactics development anyway. As long as there is no need to fly far or go for long patrol, fuel and payloads can be exchanged for kinematic performance. The Al-31 being more plentiful should enable the first batch to fly more intensely, saving the more precious WS-15s for front line J-20s.

 

[kyanges]

I've read about this supposed weight savings. How does printing it in 3D save weight?

 

[plawolf]

I've read about this supposed weight savings. How does printing it in 3D save weight?

There are a number of ways weight savings can be achieved.

Firstly, far greater precision can be achieved through 3D printing than via traditional casting and milling. The difference is quite noticablemwjen you compare the recent pictures of 3D printed titanium parts for the J20 and J31 compared to those used in the F22 for example.

Secondly, and somewhat related to the first point, because of the greater precision of 3D printing, you can use more complex and exotic structures that were not possible or economcial to make using traitional means. This can allow for weight savings be using more efficient designs that were previously simply not possible, or too costly and time consuming to fabricate.

Lastly, it is possible to use 3D printing to create new allows not possible or economical using traditional means because of the different melting points of different metals. These new allows can be stronger and/or lighter than traditional allows or normal metals, and so parts made from them can be lighter and stronger.