J-10 Thread IV

tphuang

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
VIP Professional
Registered Member
It's simple

Egypt has had production lines for training planes, fighters and helicopters for many years now. The Egyptian Aircraft Factory was established in 1950.
And Egypt in 1990 until 2007 trained 1,000 technicians and engineers in China as part of the aircraft factory development program in the nineties.
The same is true for the missile factory
And Egypt has a Helwan factory for developed industries that was established in 1978 and produced 154 Gazelle helicopters and built the Ka-52 series, Mi-8, Mi-17 and Mi-24 aircraft
Egypt produces a percentage of spare parts for fighters and planes

After 2011, production in these factories mainly stopped
Now Egypt wants to operate local production lines and transfer technologies in avionics systems and guided missiles next to it
China refused to produce the J-10A plane locally in Egypt in 2010. Perhaps the Chinese refused because the plane was in China at that time, the latest in China

Consequently, India offers to Egypt the production of Indian aircraft, and Samar becomes the manufacturing and export center for the benefit of the African and Arab market
Just as Egypt did with South Korea, with which Egypt signed contracts in land systems, Egypt became the agent and manufacturer for the benefit of the African market, starting with the K-9A1 cannon.

Increasing the percentage of local production depends on the size of the signed contracts. As usual, Egypt starts with initial contracts, followed by additional contracts. For example, for the K-8E planes, the first contract was with 8 planes, followed by a second contract with 40 additional planes. Egypt will also invest in the development and production of Avionix systems.

The main contenders for the Egyptian shows are South Korea, China and India

South Korea is offering Egypt the T-50 plane, and it will also offer Egypt in the future the production of the K-21 . plane
The South Korean president announced that the KF-21 Block 2 will be the fifth generation and the KF-21 Block 3 will be the sixth generation.


And China in 2010 offered Egypt to replace the production of the K-8E plane with the production of the L-15 plane, but the stage of instability and also the Egyptian Air Force had complete dissatisfaction at the level of the K-8E plane as levels of quality and reliability made there a lack of interest in producing the plane L -15th
China also offered the JF-17 aircraft, starting in 2004, and the matter failed because Egypt also wanted to assemble the SD-10/PL-12 missile.
Also, the JF-17 BLOCK 3 version, its performance and specifications were not satisfactory to Egypt at all

The LCA TEJAS aircraft is a small aircraft, but it follows Western standards in quality, regardless of the hostility between India and China. India has overcome all its problems, and India also provides a new armament package such as ASTRA MK2/3, Rudram-1/2 missiles.

Egypt is also interested in the Chinese HD-1 missile as a competitor to the Indian BrahMos . missile

Egypt wants to produce a replacement plane for the French Gazelle
One of its interests is the production of an alternative aircraft. India offered the LCH plane. True, it needs modification in the design and additional developments, but it is also competing with the Z-10ME. The Chinese Z-10 plane is more mature in its latest version and better in the diversity of munitions

India offered 2 Helicopters to Egypt for their production LCH DHURV

Of course, the presence of more than one offer and more than one country allows Egypt to obtain the best technical and financial offers

Matters are related. As for production with a license, as long as the number of aircraft purchase orders exceed 40 aircraft, the feasibility of assembly begins, and as long as the number exceeds 70 aircraft, the percentage of manufacturing in the aircraft follows, and we have a very simple model. Pakistan produces 58% of the JF-17 aircraft, starting with the production of aircraft number 50
Arkia reached 70% of the 16 thousand with a contract to produce 160 aircraft
Egypt has an air force of more than 400 fighters and 340 training aircraft
You simply need more than 96 LIFT planes and 50 -100 fighter planes
Low cost before moving to fifth generation fighters

So it competes mainly with the LCA/T50/M346

Amateurs try to disparage the competing country or competing offers

China refuses to move from technology, India accepts a move to Egypt, and India has the advantage that its products are compatible with Western systems. The LCA plane can be equipped with European munitions such as MICA-NG/METEOR AASM missiles
Russian munitions KH-59/31/38
Thus, the integration with the munitions system used by the Air Force on one platform simplifies the same story, the most reliable engines
India depends mainly on Western technology, and if there is a slowdown in Indian development, its ability to improve in the field
The nature of India’s offer The deals with Egypt will be worth billions of dollars

India has another advantage in the trade exchange with Egypt. India absorbs much larger Egyptian products. There is a balance in the trade exchange between Egypt and India, while the trade exchange with China is highly imbalanced, and Egyptian exports do not equal 20% of the volume of exchange that takes place at 19 billion dollars.
Consequently, the Chinese, Indian and Korean offers will be discounted for those who offer better technical and price offers and greater cooperation in the transfer of technology
That makes sense. I think most of us are saying that LCA hasn't proven to be a very good aircraft in IAF service. However, regardless of what we think, only Egyptian Air Force's view really matters. Now, J-10C was only granted export permission back in 2016. But given how far they've come since then, I see no reason why China would not be willing to offer local production and ToT. Especially if that locks down Egypt as a customer for FC-31 in the future.

Now, I'm sure China would be willing to offer more if Egypt ends up buying L-15 and other military hardwares from China. I'm just a little surprised that Egypt is willing to go from F-16s to LCA or T-50.
 

supersnoop

Major
Registered Member
It's simple

Egypt has had production lines for training planes, fighters and helicopters for many years now. The Egyptian Aircraft Factory was established in 1950.
And Egypt in 1990 until 2007 trained 1,000 technicians and engineers in China as part of the aircraft factory development program in the nineties.
The same is true for the missile factory
And Egypt has a Helwan factory for developed industries that was established in 1978 and produced 154 Gazelle helicopters and built the Ka-52 series, Mi-8, Mi-17 and Mi-24 aircraft
Egypt produces a percentage of spare parts for fighters and planes

After 2011, production in these factories mainly stopped
Now Egypt wants to operate local production lines and transfer technologies in avionics systems and guided missiles next to it
China refused to produce the J-10A plane locally in Egypt in 2010. Perhaps the Chinese refused because the plane was in China at that time, the latest in China

Consequently, India offers to Egypt the production of Indian aircraft, and Samar becomes the manufacturing and export center for the benefit of the African and Arab market
Just as Egypt did with South Korea, with which Egypt signed contracts in land systems, Egypt became the agent and manufacturer for the benefit of the African market, starting with the K-9A1 cannon.

Increasing the percentage of local production depends on the size of the signed contracts. As usual, Egypt starts with initial contracts, followed by additional contracts. For example, for the K-8E planes, the first contract was with 8 planes, followed by a second contract with 40 additional planes. Egypt will also invest in the development and production of Avionix systems.

The main contenders for the Egyptian shows are South Korea, China and India

South Korea is offering Egypt the T-50 plane, and it will also offer Egypt in the future the production of the K-21 . plane
The South Korean president announced that the KF-21 Block 2 will be the fifth generation and the KF-21 Block 3 will be the sixth generation.


And China in 2010 offered Egypt to replace the production of the K-8E plane with the production of the L-15 plane, but the stage of instability and also the Egyptian Air Force had complete dissatisfaction at the level of the K-8E plane as levels of quality and reliability made there a lack of interest in producing the plane L -15th
China also offered the JF-17 aircraft, starting in 2004, and the matter failed because Egypt also wanted to assemble the SD-10/PL-12 missile.
Also, the JF-17 BLOCK 3 version, its performance and specifications were not satisfactory to Egypt at all

The LCA TEJAS aircraft is a small aircraft, but it follows Western standards in quality, regardless of the hostility between India and China. India has overcome all its problems, and India also provides a new armament package such as ASTRA MK2/3, Rudram-1/2 missiles.

Egypt is also interested in the Chinese HD-1 missile as a competitor to the Indian BrahMos . missile

Egypt wants to produce a replacement plane for the French Gazelle
One of its interests is the production of an alternative aircraft. India offered the LCH plane. True, it needs modification in the design and additional developments, but it is also competing with the Z-10ME. The Chinese Z-10 plane is more mature in its latest version and better in the diversity of munitions

India offered 2 Helicopters to Egypt for their production LCH DHURV

Of course, the presence of more than one offer and more than one country allows Egypt to obtain the best technical and financial offers

Matters are related. As for production with a license, as long as the number of aircraft purchase orders exceed 40 aircraft, the feasibility of assembly begins, and as long as the number exceeds 70 aircraft, the percentage of manufacturing in the aircraft follows, and we have a very simple model. Pakistan produces 58% of the JF-17 aircraft, starting with the production of aircraft number 50
Arkia reached 70% of the 16 thousand with a contract to produce 160 aircraft
Egypt has an air force of more than 400 fighters and 340 training aircraft
You simply need more than 96 LIFT planes and 50 -100 fighter planes
Low cost before moving to fifth generation fighters

So it competes mainly with the LCA/T50/M346

Amateurs try to disparage the competing country or competing offers

China refuses to move from technology, India accepts a move to Egypt, and India has the advantage that its products are compatible with Western systems. The LCA plane can be equipped with European munitions such as MICA-NG/METEOR AASM missiles
Russian munitions KH-59/31/38
Thus, the integration with the munitions system used by the Air Force on one platform simplifies the same story, the most reliable engines
India depends mainly on Western technology, and if there is a slowdown in Indian development, its ability to improve in the field
The nature of India’s offer The deals with Egypt will be worth billions of dollars

India has another advantage in the trade exchange with Egypt. India absorbs much larger Egyptian products. There is a balance in the trade exchange between Egypt and India, while the trade exchange with China is highly imbalanced, and Egyptian exports do not equal 20% of the volume of exchange that takes place at 19 billion dollars.
Consequently, the Chinese, Indian and Korean offers will be discounted for those who offer better technical and price offers and greater cooperation in the transfer of technology

Yes, but Tejas Mk2 and LCH exist only on paper. The money being paid is just a figure made up by India. If there are any problems getting these projects into production, then there will be fighting over who is paying for it.

J-10CE is a known and flying thing. Yes, obviously if the technology sharing is the goal, then it might not be the best choice depending on China’s willingness. However, it is an actual realized design, and as such, no real comparison.
 

kentchang

Junior Member
Registered Member
It's simple

Egypt has had production lines for training planes, fighters and helicopters for many years now. The Egyptian Aircraft Factory was established in 1950.
And Egypt in 1990 until 2007 trained 1,000 technicians and engineers in China as part of the aircraft factory development program in the nineties.
The same is true for the missile factory
And Egypt has a Helwan factory for developed industries that was established in 1978 and produced 154 Gazelle helicopters and built the Ka-52 series, Mi-8, Mi-17 and Mi-24 aircraft
Egypt produces a percentage of spare parts for fighters and planes

After 2011, production in these factories mainly stopped
Now Egypt wants to operate local production lines and transfer technologies in avionics systems and guided missiles next to it
China refused to produce the J-10A plane locally in Egypt in 2010. Perhaps the Chinese refused because the plane was in China at that time, the latest in China

Consequently, India offers to Egypt the production of Indian aircraft, and Samar becomes the manufacturing and export center for the benefit of the African and Arab market
Just as Egypt did with South Korea, with which Egypt signed contracts in land systems, Egypt became the agent and manufacturer for the benefit of the African market, starting with the K-9A1 cannon.

Increasing the percentage of local production depends on the size of the signed contracts. As usual, Egypt starts with initial contracts, followed by additional contracts. For example, for the K-8E planes, the first contract was with 8 planes, followed by a second contract with 40 additional planes. Egypt will also invest in the development and production of Avionix systems.

The main contenders for the Egyptian shows are South Korea, China and India

South Korea is offering Egypt the T-50 plane, and it will also offer Egypt in the future the production of the K-21 . plane
The South Korean president announced that the KF-21 Block 2 will be the fifth generation and the KF-21 Block 3 will be the sixth generation.


And China in 2010 offered Egypt to replace the production of the K-8E plane with the production of the L-15 plane, but the stage of instability and also the Egyptian Air Force had complete dissatisfaction at the level of the K-8E plane as levels of quality and reliability made there a lack of interest in producing the plane L -15th
China also offered the JF-17 aircraft, starting in 2004, and the matter failed because Egypt also wanted to assemble the SD-10/PL-12 missile.
Also, the JF-17 BLOCK 3 version, its performance and specifications were not satisfactory to Egypt at all

The LCA TEJAS aircraft is a small aircraft, but it follows Western standards in quality, regardless of the hostility between India and China. India has overcome all its problems, and India also provides a new armament package such as ASTRA MK2/3, Rudram-1/2 missiles.

Egypt is also interested in the Chinese HD-1 missile as a competitor to the Indian BrahMos . missile

Egypt wants to produce a replacement plane for the French Gazelle
One of its interests is the production of an alternative aircraft. India offered the LCH plane. True, it needs modification in the design and additional developments, but it is also competing with the Z-10ME. The Chinese Z-10 plane is more mature in its latest version and better in the diversity of munitions

India offered 2 Helicopters to Egypt for their production LCH DHURV

Of course, the presence of more than one offer and more than one country allows Egypt to obtain the best technical and financial offers

Matters are related. As for production with a license, as long as the number of aircraft purchase orders exceed 40 aircraft, the feasibility of assembly begins, and as long as the number exceeds 70 aircraft, the percentage of manufacturing in the aircraft follows, and we have a very simple model. Pakistan produces 58% of the JF-17 aircraft, starting with the production of aircraft number 50
Arkia reached 70% of the 16 thousand with a contract to produce 160 aircraft
Egypt has an air force of more than 400 fighters and 340 training aircraft
You simply need more than 96 LIFT planes and 50 -100 fighter planes
Low cost before moving to fifth generation fighters

So it competes mainly with the LCA/T50/M346

Amateurs try to disparage the competing country or competing offers

China refuses to move from technology, India accepts a move to Egypt, and India has the advantage that its products are compatible with Western systems. The LCA plane can be equipped with European munitions such as MICA-NG/METEOR AASM missiles
Russian munitions KH-59/31/38
Thus, the integration with the munitions system used by the Air Force on one platform simplifies the same story, the most reliable engines
India depends mainly on Western technology, and if there is a slowdown in Indian development, its ability to improve in the field
The nature of India’s offer The deals with Egypt will be worth billions of dollars

India has another advantage in the trade exchange with Egypt. India absorbs much larger Egyptian products. There is a balance in the trade exchange between Egypt and India, while the trade exchange with China is highly imbalanced, and Egyptian exports do not equal 20% of the volume of exchange that takes place at 19 billion dollars.
Consequently, the Chinese, Indian and Korean offers will be discounted for those who offer better technical and price offers and greater cooperation in the transfer of technology

It is very hard to imagine Egypt knowingly trust and use Tejas' Israeli made components. Buying Korean or Indian also means the US still has the final say in when and how Egypt can use the planes. Between those two, I don't see the Tejas having any advantage over the F-50. A path to KF-21 is also very tempting while India has nothing to offer. Using the F-414 now means the next-gen must be European. Is that wise? L-15 and J-10CE makes an interesting high-low mix with even a potential co-development role to a land-based J-35 (a la JF-17). WS-10 or WS-21 technology transfer is also very appealing.

Egypt is at peace. The focus is probably on upgrading its industrial know-how. Here again India has nothing to offer since other than assembly, it is all Western components anyway so why pay retail price twice? The upgrade path is clear for both Korea and China with China offering a potential strategic alliance which Korea cannot.

To sell the Tejas, the Indian Air Force itself must show much more faith in the jet by deploying it against real enemies like Pakistan and China instead of facing Sri Lanka. How much the IAF really thinks about the Tejas is loud and clear. If anything goes wrong with a Tejas deal, everyone will immediately say "I told you so" and they'll be right.

The safe choice is the F-50 especially after Poland's recent announcements. I see zero prospect for the Tejas. With the Tejas, the only country Egypt can realistically consider attacking due to its extremely short range is Israel!
 

Gloire_bb

Captain
Registered Member
The availability of alternative engines to the American engines is easy. There are the French and English engines M-88-4E & Eurojet EJ200.
Replacing engines - hearts of the whole aircraft really - within light fighters is a very tricky thing to do.
There is nothing easy about it, and there are very good reasons it's rarely actually done.

Until there is a flying prototype at the very least, consider there is no alternative.
 

sndef888

Captain
Registered Member
A Chinese media report revealed that another country had requested the supply of a large number of J-10CE fighter jets. If a deal goes through, Sudan will become the second country after Pakistan to operate the single-engine Chinese fighter aircraft.

After years of hesitancy about the East African nation’s selection for its next generation of combat aircraft, the Sudanese Defense Ministry is starting negotiations to purchase Chinese J-10C fighter fighters, according to the Chinese magazine Myzaker.

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Can Sudan really afford this?
 

Totoro

Major
VIP Professional
They probably could easily afford a dozen or so. Their military budget is 3.6+ billion USD a year. The have no real navy to spend on. Their army is largely conscript based and the overall personnel costs are fairly low, given that the purchasing power parity factor is 6 to 7 (cost of living and salaries are really low)

Sudanese air force is not that small on paper, they have dozens of Soviet era planes. But likely only some are truly operational. Whatever the real number, those are old and do need fairly urgent replacements.

In theory they could buy even more j10 planes but if dozens would be involved then it's plausible Saudis would be partially behind such a buy, as a way of saying thanks for support in Yemen war.
 

Albatross

New Member
Registered Member
A Chinese media report revealed that another country had requested the supply of a large number of J-10CE fighter jets. If a deal goes through, Sudan will become the second country after Pakistan to operate the single-engine Chinese fighter aircraft.

After years of hesitancy about the East African nation’s selection for its next generation of combat aircraft, the Sudanese Defense Ministry is starting negotiations to purchase Chinese J-10C fighter fighters, according to the Chinese magazine Myzaker.

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Can Sudan really afford this?
Nope they don't have the cash, infrastructure or the expertise and it would be foolish to trust them with a advanced frontline fighter like the J-10C.

As I said before, JF-17 is more suitable for them.

Eurasian Times is a joke
 
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