If China's first AESA is the same tech level as the APG-77 then the above pictured ESA is definitely PESA, since AFAIK almost all AESAs share T/R modules with the IFF system, unlike PESAs which still use separate antennae/interrogators. The one exception I know of is the Raven AESA (for the Gripen) which has some kind of polarity issue because its AESA setup is unique.Except, we had the following reasons to believe it was an AESA (and I still do).
Also recall the image below. We never did clarify whether this image was a J-10B or a J-10C. If the former, perhaps the radar in the picture is a PESA, and they ended up going with a different radar for the J-10B than the one we saw in 2011 with the IFF dipoles. Or perhaps this picture is indeed the J-10C with an AESA radar, and the J-10B does indeed have a PESA radar, but perhaps the PESA radar is one we've never actually seen before, and both the the radar in this picture and the one with the IFFs were AESAs. Or perhaps the one with the IFFs was indeed a PESA, contradicting all the earlier information we gathered when it first came out. It could even be that the J-10B does use the radar with IFF dipoles but it's an AESA, and J-10C has a different newer AESA.
The reversal on the radar with IFF dipoles came out of the first rumour that claimed there would be a J-10C, which also said that the J-10B uses a PESA. The rumour itself, to my knowledge, never specified that the radar with those IFF dipoles was the PESA being used, however. Furthermore we don't have a good trace on where this rumour came from, and how credible the original source was (I don't recall the first rumour coming out of a big shrim). We also have this post from tphuang around the time the rumour came out. https://www.sinodefenceforum.com/j-10-thread-iii-closed-to-posting.t4290/page-489#post-323767
"Just to carry over from J-20 thread. An article on 14th institute talks about development of China's first AESA radar for fighter jet. It will be x-band based and won national awards in 2009/2010. From that, it seems like they flight tested it by 2009/2010. From all of that, it seems likes this radar is developed for J-10B/C although we have heard rumours on Chinese bbs that the first batch of J-10B we saw are using PESA radar. None of which is conclusive. So this AESA radar is either going to already be on the first batch of J-10B that we saw or on the second batch (J-10C as some calls it).
Technology wise, the article claimed that it has same level of technology as APG-77 on F-22. And that 14th Institute is using experience from developing this radar to develop J-20's radar. For the first part, I think it could just be talking about the usage of GaA T/R modules and the design of the radar rather than the actual power/capability of the radar."
All this to say we don't have the definitive word on whether the radar in question was an AESA, whether the J-10B uses a PESA, or even whether the production J-10B is mounted with the radar in question. Until we get another look at what's inside a production J-10B's nose (one that we can definitively identify as a J-10B), this matter is more ambiguous than it may seem.
J-10 Thread IV
- Thread starter Jeff Head
- Start date
Maybe the radar tphuang was referring to isn't even the radar with those IFF dipoles. Nothing strictly excludes that possibility or the possibility that the radar with the IFF has peculiar features while still being as capable or advanced as the APG-77 (a radar that's pretty old by today's standard). When I was digging around some members even pointed out those dipoles might have functions other than IFF. Given the collection of facts and evidence, some of it contradictory, we just can't be sure. I'm sure we will know, one day, but for now the picture looks rather...complicated.
danielchin
Junior Member
a 16-year veteran pilot trained for IFR the first time.
He has, likely, never had a chance to fly a refuelable plane untill two years ago.
Thx for your reply
It's only complicated if made to be. Yes, in some bizarre universe what looks exactly like IFF interrogators are actually something else (what?), or the J-10B's "AESA" is superduperspecial and actually uses separate IFF transmitters. Also, I have not seen any "facts" or "evidence" that is contradictory regarding this radar except for internet speculation, which I qualify as neither.
Having IFF dipoles on the radar doesn't make it super duper special. I've talked with radar experts before about the radar. They've said it's not typical but also not impossible. Unless you are also a radar expert I'm going to defer to their judgement.
In 2011 we had some displays and commentators indicating in public the radar in question was an AESA. In 2015 we had a rumour that didn't specify the radar but said the J-10B uses a PESA. You can decide for yourself which sets of information should hold more weight.
Who said anything about "impossible"? I know I didn't, so let's not start with the straw men arguments. In fact I've already given you an example of an AESA that uses a separate IFF T/R system (the only one I know of), but my understanding of it is that its AESA necessitates this separation, so yes, if the J-10B's AESA used separate IFF transmitters, it would in fact be superduperspecial. In any case we are not talking about what is "impossible" or not, but what is most likely vs least likely. At that time, with those photos, it's pretty obvious that radar was a PESA.
Also, which displays and which commentators said that the J-10B uses an AESA? Do you have a link to said commentators?