J-10 Thread IV
- Thread starter Jeff Head
- Start date
Hendrik_2000
Lieutenant General
I think you are the one that brainwashed by the western press As I suspected your source of information are propaganda from NewsMax Free Beacon type of media
China did not get the fly by wire technology from Israel . It the brainchild of Yang wei He is the control engineer who perfected the technology and spend many year tweaking it In fact they retrofit J8 AZT for this purpose. As any technology you incorporate outside practice I don't see anything wrong with it. the Israeli did the same as all the other country
Here is the story
Shenyang Aircraft has revealed details of an Alternate Control Test (ACT) programme to develop and demonstrate its own fly-by-wire technology. The ACT was unveiled at the Zhuhai Air Show in early November and is the first indication that China has developed such technology.
China rarely reveals much about such initiatives, but Shenyang says the programme began in 1977, with construction starting in 1988. A J-8 I fighter was used as the first technology demonstrator, but later this role was assumed by a J-8 II fighter. According to Shenyang, from 1992 to 1995 the programme benefited from "foreign technology input". The J-8 II ACT uses small canards to induce instability. The programme has demonstrated a three-axis full-authority digital fly-by-wire system, featuring a flight computer with a 1553B databus interface and integrated servo actuators for the vertical and horizontal tail, ailerons, flap and rudder.
FYI the fighter that Israel produced Kfir, which is a perfect copy of Mirage 5 Israel got all the blueprint from Swiss engineer who work on licence built mirage 5 for the swiss airforce. So much for high fallutin IAI. They steal the design of Mirage 5 lock stock and barrel
By 1968, Dassault had finished production of the 50 Mirage 5Js paid for by Israel, but an arms embargo imposed upon Israel by the French government in 1967 prevented deliveries from taking place. The Israelis replied by producing an unlicensed copy of the Mirage 5, the , with technical specifications for both the airframe and the engine obtained by Israeli spies. Some sources claim Israel received 50 Mirage 5s in crates from (AdA), while the AdA took over the 50 aircraft originally intended for Israel
Alfred Frauenknecht, 64, a Swiss engineer found guilty in 1971 of selling Mirage jet engine secrets to Israel. Frauenknecht was sentenced to 4 1/2 years in prison in what was then Switzerland's biggest spy trial since World War II. At his trial, Frauenknecht, who was not Jewish, said he felt morally obliged to help the Jewish people after the 1967 Arab-Israeli Six-Day War. He said he was concerned that the Soviet Union was helping Egypt to rebuild its armed forces, while Israel was suffering from an arms embargo imposed by France after the war. The Israeli air force relied on French equipment for its Mirage jet fighter force. Frauenknecht was a senior engineer with the company that manufactured the Mirage jet fighter engines for the Swiss air force under license from the French company. He admitted receiving $200,000 from Israel for about 200,000 jet engine blueprints smuggled in crates. The case prompted the Swiss government to expel an Israeli military attache. In Aadorf, Switzerland, on Jan. 8 after a heart attack.
Last edited:
plawolf
Lieutenant General
Oh god, not this old nonsense again!
Nothing against he poster bringing it up, but we really have been over this so many times already it really is pretty tiresome and annoying to keep having to explain the same things over and over again.
Yes, China studied the Lavi and had co-operation with Israel, but that kind of co-operation is less than the routine exchanges that goes on as a matter of course between close allies in the west, yet you don't get this same nonsense with someone trying to claim credit for someone else's work just because they compared notes once upon a time.
If in doubt, just apply some common sense.
If the US, who is the Israelis' closest ally, could kill the Lavi by cutting off supplies of key components, just what use is copying the Lavi for China? Or does anyone seriously think China would have a better chance of securing the supply of key US components from the US than the Israelis?
This nonsense about Harpy and PL8 are less forgivable. Those are just tech transfers (PL8) and straight out purchase (Harpy). To try and suggest subsequent Chinese developments decades after those deals were spin offs is just plain silly.
It would be akin to suggesting the F35 is a knock off of Russian or British planes just because the US liecenced the Harrier and bought planes for the Yak141 swivel engine.
Nothing against he poster bringing it up, but we really have been over this so many times already it really is pretty tiresome and annoying to keep having to explain the same things over and over again.
Yes, China studied the Lavi and had co-operation with Israel, but that kind of co-operation is less than the routine exchanges that goes on as a matter of course between close allies in the west, yet you don't get this same nonsense with someone trying to claim credit for someone else's work just because they compared notes once upon a time.
If in doubt, just apply some common sense.
If the US, who is the Israelis' closest ally, could kill the Lavi by cutting off supplies of key components, just what use is copying the Lavi for China? Or does anyone seriously think China would have a better chance of securing the supply of key US components from the US than the Israelis?
This nonsense about Harpy and PL8 are less forgivable. Those are just tech transfers (PL8) and straight out purchase (Harpy). To try and suggest subsequent Chinese developments decades after those deals were spin offs is just plain silly.
It would be akin to suggesting the F35 is a knock off of Russian or British planes just because the US liecenced the Harrier and bought planes for the Yak141 swivel engine.
vesicles
Colonel
I'm honestly puzzled what you are attempting to achieve here by insisting the involvement of the Israelis in the J-10 program.
The Israeli government is not trying to take any credit. The Chinese government is not suggesting any major foreign help in developing the J-10. So literally, neither side has ever officially hinted any major involvement of the Israelis. So what's the purpose of this insistence? Trying to drive a wedge between Israel and the US?
Can you summarize his claims and evidence? I don't see any mention of it in the video or the file there.
The guy said he analyzed Lavi trade secrets as an engineering student in the early '90s. Could not get a publisher for two decades until 2013. Complained that it's not easy for a first-time author.
This sounds like one of those "Shocking Inside Story of XXX." The guy has been fishing for a taker. Not sure why you're pushing for this story now.
superdog
Junior Member
You're evading the question. It's not about where the claim originated, I'm simply asking whether YOU claim it or not. If yes, where's your evidence that the J-10 uses US/Isreal parts?
And no, those try-hard speculative reporting don't count as good evidence for the claim that "J-10 uses US/Isreal parts", as others have already explained. Or are you trying to switch to another target now, suggesting that "Israel designed j-10 for china"?
Considering J-10B/C is a single engine fighter jet. I am curious to know, on a hypothetical war, what would be survivability of the aircraft if fitted with Chinese domestic engine on a maritime configuration and a night mission over ocean ? To re-phrase my question, how good is Chinese domestic engine in terms of performance, capability and day/night all weather mission?
antiterror13
Brigadier
this is 135 pages thread ... if you are keen and read some pages ... you will know how good Chinese WS-10s engine is ... in simple word .... very good and good enough ... not the best engine in the world, but not too far behind
Perfectly fine. The PLANAF have already fitted the WS-10 engines onto J-15s, J-15Ss, and J-15As. None of them are falling out of the sky.
Furthermore, the J-11Bs in use by the PLANAF all use WS-10 engines. AFAIK, the initial AL-31F-equipped batch is only in service with the PLAAF. There is a publicised image of a J-11B intercepting a US E-P3 over water that depicts a PLANAF J-11B with WS-10 engines.