J-10 Thread III (Closed to posting)

[Skywatcher]

Hmmm, It seems that they are AESA if you want to....Lets face it, where can you find an reliable source about chinas military, particulary things that we cant see in photos? we can only speculate

The Phalcon uses AESA, and Dr. Fisher mentions that a "east Asian military source" stated that the radar transmissions of the KJ-2000 were similar to that of the Phalcon, which at the very least suggests significant ToT.

 

[lilzz]

actually screws (actually they are rivets) are still pretty common in aviation today. However, usually the rivets would bow inward and a coating would covers it up. But they slowing on their out as composites % of plane becomes more and more. Here a "naked" JSF museum pieces, you can still see the rivets. But they aren't as pronounced as the one on that J-10.

Thanks for clearing that up. but the obvious difference may hinge on the manufacturing technology. While western rivets are done by precision tools and machines , China's are done roughly by human hands and eyes. That may not be true, but I am using that as an example.

Workmanship does reflect the stage of your industrial advancement level.

Maybe this has direct correlation to the WS-10A engine problem, the overall manufacturing process and technology is not good enough. Maybe time to introduce some new tools, process and manufacturing technology.

 

[adeptitus]

Many more J-10 close-up pics here:

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There was a discussion on another forum about this a while back, with links to other comparable aircraft close-up photos:

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The J-10 workmanship isn't as smooth, but you'd find the same screws & rivets on all other 4th gen aircraft.

 

[luhai]

Thanks for clearing that up. but the obvious difference may hinge on the manufacturing technology.
...

Maybe this has direct correlation to the WS-10A engine problem, the overall manufacturing process and technology is not good enough. Maybe time to introduce some new tools, process and manufacturing technology.

It hard to do that when there is all these export restriction on you, since no precision manufacturing equipment can be exported to China under current circumstance, either civilian or military. So China has to do everything in house, which could take a while to catch up to world standards. (As Russians, in my opinion are worse than China regard to manufacturing technology.

It's actually a major problem in trade with the USA, since pretty much all the manufacturing product USA have and China wants are restricted or partially restricted items. Everything else, China can pretty much make themselves.

 

[Violet Oboe]

AFAIK, dear luhai especially France, Italy and in a slightly more restricted way also Germany are actually exporting all classes of high precision manufacturing machines, tools and equipment to China. There are indeed some western media reports that Chengdu currently has French and German machinery in use for J-10 production but this remains of course speculation.

Nevertheless you are correct about the extensive US technology embargo against China and corresponding negative effects on both countries. Unfortunately the Japanese government has been following it's ´masters´ lead and has tightened up export regulations considerably but Japanese companies are often unhelpful for purposes of technology transfer anyway.

 

[Skywatcher]

Apparently you don't need to tighten up the screws that much for the J-10, or it's just an example that needs some serious overhauling.

 

[challenge]

I thought the radars of the KJ-2000, the KJ-200 and 052C DDG were all AESA?

Back in 1994,Chinese government science journal cite several technical achievement (both civilian and military) among them was the development L-band (or was it s-band) 4- bit T/R microwave circuit.
according to back issue of IDR,T/R MC for lower RF band are much easier to fabricate and produce than high RF band particular X-band and MMW band.
AESA for KJ-2000/Kj-200 and 052C all operating in low RF band.

 

[crobato]

AFAIK, dear luhai especially France, Italy and in a slightly more restricted way also Germany are actually exporting all classes of high precision manufacturing machines, tools and equipment to China. There are indeed some western media reports that Chengdu currently has French and German machinery in use for J-10 production but this remains of course speculation.

Nevertheless you are correct about the extensive US technology embargo against China and corresponding negative effects on both countries. Unfortunately the Japanese government has been following it's ´masters´ lead and has tightened up export regulations considerably but Japanese companies are often unhelpful for purposes of technology transfer anyway.

Much of these tooling you mention are only used to make the internals. When it comes to the skin, the riveting, that's going to be mostly hand labor.

Not only you use large panels of molded composite, which precision machine tools have nothing to do about also.

 

[crobato]

Back in 1994,Chinese government science journal cite several technical achievement (both civilian and military) among them was the development L-band (or was it s-band) 4- bit T/R microwave circuit.
according to back issue of IDR,T/R MC for lower RF band are much easier to fabricate and produce than high RF band particular X-band and MMW band.
AESA for KJ-2000/Kj-200 and 052C all operating in low RF band.

I don't know if its really easier to do a lower band. A lower band requires a much larger element since the size of an element cannot be 1/2" smaller than the maximum band frequency. So an L band AESA would require elements that are in the order, several times larger than an X band element.

 

[Engineer]

Not only you use large panels of molded composite, which precision machine tools have nothing to do about also.

You need CNC machines to make the molds for the composite panels.