J-10 Thread III (Closed to posting)

[plawolf]

I was thinking the same thing, especially looking at the grey and green ends.

However, I am not sure if the middle of the wing is such a good place to put ECM/EW pods, as would the missiles not interfere with the pods' normal functions? Having such pods in the middle of your missiles might have bad side-effects on the performance of your missiles once you start using the pods. The outer pylon position where the PL8s currently are would seem to be a far better place to place semi-integrated ECM/EW pods as not only will you get clear field of view, the J10 itself is seem so often with only pylons and training rounds there that one starts to think there might to certain benefits to having something there all the time. ECM/EW pods would therefore be perfect as you are not going to shoot them off.

I do remember reading about side arrays used with ESA radars. I was not paying too much attention and only skimmed that bit, so can't remember too many details, but I wonder if it might have something to do with that?

 

[crobato]

Pakistan air force personnel has selected french radar over the chinese make KLJ-7 radar for there fleet of FC-1/JF-17 fighter.this despite effort by AVIC to market the KLJ-7.
Pakistani was quite familiar with US/european make avionic,for decade they been operating french/brit/and US make fighters. not to mention hundred of engineers working in the saude/kuwaiti air force.
while they admitted the Chinese make avionic make tremendous progress in the last 10 years, still behind that of european/US.this important factor while PAF has selected european equipment .

No, they didn't select French radar. They talked about it but in the end, end up buying Chinese radar. Not just fighters, but also ground air search radar and AEW aircraft.

KLJ-7 is certainly everything better than the old APG-66 they have on their F-16s.

 

[crobato]

Here's some nice shots that showed up over at CDF.

[qimg]http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/4416/post5201245141088.jpg[/qimg]

[qimg]http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/8048/post1311245175334.jpg[/qimg]

Yeah, that shows a lot of composite covering panels underneath the wing.

 

[Mashan]

I am wondering if they are also using the J10B development to help test out new materials, design concepts and new ECM/EW equipments for the JXX project.

 

[challenge]

No, they didn't select French radar. They talked about it but in the end, end up buying Chinese radar. Not just fighters, but also ground air search radar and AEW aircraft.

KLJ-7 is certainly everything better than the old APG-66 they have on their F-16s.

the first batch will equip with Chinese radar,the second batch I believe was french make radar.
any country that purchased american arm , you automatically buy into US foreign policy.what if US disagree with your policy and suddently impose arm embargo?same happen to china in 1961 and egypt in 1975,or french sudden political shift in 1969 by placing arm embargo against israel or UN arm embargo against south africa.
there's report that after 9.11 ,saude begin to re-exam arm purchased from the US,by purchasing Eurofighter rather than F-35.
Pakistan, after all target of US arm embargo during the 90's that serve as lesson,by purchasing of Chinese arm as political insurance.

 

[crobato]

the first batch will equip with Chinese radar,the second batch I believe was french make radar.
any country that purchased american arm , you automatically buy into US foreign policy.what if US disagree with your policy and suddently impose arm embargo?same happen to china in 1961 and egypt in 1975,or french sudden political shift in 1969 by placing arm embargo against israel or UN arm embargo against south africa.
there's report that after 9.11 ,saude begin to re-exam arm purchased from the US,by purchasing Eurofighter rather than F-35.
Pakistan, after all target of US arm embargo during the 90's that serve as lesson,by purchasing of Chinese arm as political insurance.

No such thing ever as French radars happening on the JF-17, believe me. At best, the French radars are used only as bargaining chips to force the Chinese to hold less back on the technology and offer more competitive pricing and support. Its an old business tactic.

 

[Lion]

No such thing ever as French radars happening on the JF-17, believe me. At best, the French radars are used only as bargaining chips to force the Chinese to hold less back on the technology and offer more competitive pricing and support. Its an old business tactic.

Agree! All those so called purchasing western radar and put on JF-17 are just talk only. Talk is cheap. I will only believe when deals are signed and official announced it.

All JF-17 will eventually be equipped with Chinese radar. They are the best solution for capabilities and cost factor.

 

[Munir]

No such thing ever as French radars happening on the JF-17, believe me. At best, the French radars are used only as bargaining chips to force the Chinese to hold less back on the technology and offer more competitive pricing and support. Its an old business tactic.

I think you are wrong on this Crobato. Not shouting it on every rooftop does not mean it is not going to happen. Pakistan is not intrested in waking up dogs in the neighbourhood.

About bargaining. Well, it is basic rule for trade that if you have less choice you probably pay more then you should. And being close to Chinese factories (trading) I know that as long you are not a close relative you have to remember that it is tough trading.

Besides that it is usual these days to shop around to get your plane. MKI with French and Israeli parts is just an example. F7 with Grifo and matra is another. It would be foolish to think that JF17 will be fully Chinese cause one time some posters here are loving to say that China is not oing to get it but on the other end now it is fully Chinese parts. Well, a cheaper K8 was with foreign engines and cockpit... Why not JF17 with options to get different engine (Russian/Chinese), cockpit (western, chinese) or weapons (French, US, European, Russian and Chinese...)

Knowing some other side details I can confirm that you are wrong. But as I said, I can not give details nor sources.

 

[Lion]

I think you are wrong on this Crobato. Not shouting it on every rooftop does not mean it is not going to happen. Pakistan is not intrested in waking up dogs in the neighbourhood.

About bargaining. Well, it is basic rule for trade that if you have less choice you probably pay more then you should. And being close to Chinese factories (trading) I know that as long you are not a close relative you have to remember that it is tough trading.

Besides that it is usual these days to shop around to get your plane. MKI with French and Israeli parts is just an example. F7 with Grifo and matra is another. It would be foolish to think that JF17 will be fully Chinese cause one time some posters here are loving to say that China is not oing to get it but on the other end now it is fully Chinese parts. Well, a cheaper K8 was with foreign engines and cockpit... Why not JF17 with options to get different engine (Russian/Chinese), cockpit (western, chinese) or weapons (French, US, European, Russian and Chinese...)

Knowing some other side details I can confirm that you are wrong. But as I said, I can not give details nor sources.

This is as good as not saying it since u have no back up.

As for the western radar. They will never sell it since it has to be intergrated by the Chinese. Mica BVRAAM and RF 400 radar have to be handed to the Chinese for intergration and testing. This is a massive risk they have to consider. And I can gurantee, the BVRAAM version Pakistan get will be a seriously downgrade version.

 

[mean_bird]

I seriously doubt the MLU is more capable than the J-10's avionics fit.

Depends on which MLU we are talking about. I am not sure what MLU the dutch F-16 went through, but it could possibly bring your plane upto blk 50 standard, which I believe would be more than J-10's avionics.

If the dutch did sell for $7 million a copy, then probably it didnt have a lot of life left in it and possibly went only through the initial MLU.

ff UAE Israel may be considered part of asia in sporting level but in Geo politics arent they classified as the middle east?

Sort of.

But it still leaves Japan and singapore.

No, they didn't select French radar. They talked about it but in the end, end up buying Chinese radar. Not just fighters, but also ground air search radar and AEW aircraft.

KLJ-7 is certainly everything better than the old APG-66 they have on their F-16s.

I don't know why JF-17 is being discussed in the J-10 thread when it has a thread of its own. I request you to kindly move the posts to the appropriate thread.

Just would like to clear up a few things.

No official announcement has been made on which radar has been selected for the next batch.The decision to make the first batch with Chinese equipment was made batch when the project was in its initial phase and Pakistan was under sanctions.

So Chinese avionics was selected as a sole candidate not in competition with any other avionics. All the discussion is about the next batch either 51-100 (if they go for a total western package so integration wouldn't take much time) or 100+ since now they have said they will end up buying 250 JF-17s.

No such thing ever as French radars happening on the JF-17, believe me. At best, the French radars are used only as bargaining chips to force the Chinese to hold less back on the technology and offer more competitive pricing and support. Its an old business tactic.

Interesting and quite a bold statement. Is there such a discussion in Chinese circles about it?

I am sure the Chinese avionics firms have had a lot of time and might have developed something better to offer as competition to western avionics. Lets wait and see when a final decision is made or maybe you can share any details if you happen to know more.

This is as good as not saying it since u have no back up.

As for the western radar. They will never sell it since it has to be intergrated by the Chinese. Mica BVRAAM and RF 400 radar have to be handed to the Chinese for integration and testing. This is a massive risk they have to consider. And I can gurantee, the BVRAAM version Pakistan get will be a seriously downgrade version.

I think you got it completely wrong there. A french radar does not have to be integrated in China. It could be done either in Pakistan or in France itself. The avionics lab is the biggest and most modern of all the new facilities being built at PAC Kamra and there is a good reason Pakistan will be manufacturing just 50-60% of the airframe but 80% of the avionics.

An no air force will be buying "seriously downgrade versions" unless they are still better than anything else on offer.