J-10 Thread III (Closed to posting)

[Blitzo]

remember this, just 20 years ago, PLAAF still flying Mig-19,Mig-21 and even mig-17,according to the US,average pilots has only 200 hr. of flying time! that is below the USAF minimum 350(?) hr.by contrast,PAF pilot honed by US and british pilots,participate in Red Flag exercise and acted as co intructor in gulf region and saude arabia AF and Iran (before the 79's revolution).

I'm well aware of the PAF's good pilot real world record and their comprehensive exercise participation.

But I'd still like to see a source, just for posterity's sake. Well, mostly because this claim you're making is quite large.
As big as the one where we heard turkish F-4Es wiping the floor with PLAAF Su-27s a few years ago, tbh.

 

[kwaigonegin]

remember this, just 20 years ago, PLAAF still flying Mig-19,Mig-21 and even mig-17,according to the US,average pilots has only 200 hr. of flying time! that is below the USAF minimum 350(?) hr.by contrast,PAF pilot honed by US and british pilots,participate in Red Flag exercise and acted as co intructor in gulf region and saude arabia AF and Iran (before the 79's revolution).

I think most would agree that the average PAF pilot is probably better skilled his PLAAF counterpart however advancement in technology (especially combat aircraft) in most cases can more than bridge the gap in quality. Like I said in my previous posts IF what you say is true than PLAAF needs to seriously reconsider their fighter pilot training program.

 

[A.Man]

巴基斯坦每日时报最新报道，在中国新疆和田进行的代号沙辛-2联合空军对抗军演，中国空军主角歼10对抗巴军幻影3 单机对抗到双机战术对抗，巴方飞行员透露了战况结果，在超视距空战中巴方幻影3被歼10锁定七次，歼10被锁定三次。




在空中近距离格斗方面，巴方结果只被锁定两次。而歼10却被幻影3的飞行员锁定达到六次。对抗之后巴方飞行员认为中国战机属于典型三代战机，在超视距方面占有绝对优势，但空中近距离格斗则战术死板，中国飞行员飞行动作很循规蹈矩，如果派出同规格战机，巴方坚信会取得压到性胜利。目前中方还未作出战况评论。



acording to pakistan media,during joint exercise between PAF and PLAAF,one on one simulated BVR dogfight between J-10 and Mirage-3,result was Mirage-3 was "lock" or shoot down 7 times by j-10,while J-10 was "shoot down" 3 times by mirage-3.
in close in dogfight,mirage-3 was target locked 3 times,while J-10 was "locked" 6 times.
if this was real combat, PAF could have claim aerial victory,there's no reply from Chinese side.

I read this report 3 weeks ago on one of the Chinese websites. I could not find any news in Pakistan newspapers regarding the results. I dismissed the integrity of the report.

 

[Blitzo]

I read this report 3 weeks ago on one of the Chinese websites. I could not find any news in Pakistan newspapers regarding the results. I dismissed integrity of the report.

Yeah... if this really is a pakistan report, and three weeks old at that, I would've thought we'd hear more of it around.

 

[asif iqbal]

remember this, just 20 years ago, PLAAF still flying Mig-19,Mig-21 and even mig-17,according to the US,average pilots has only 200 hr. of flying time! that is below the USAF minimum 350(?) hr.by contrast,PAF pilot honed by US and british pilots,participate in Red Flag exercise and acted as co intructor in gulf region and saude arabia AF and Iran (before the 79's revolution).

USAF nor any airforce does close to 350 hours under normal practice

However on war time the number is 4 or 5 times the normal figure, RAF Typhoons were clocking 800+ hours flying during Libya campaign when they were flying out from Sicily, the aircraft ages very fast during war the toll it takes on the air frame is massive

RAF is examing the older Typhoons with the highest flying hours for retirement soon

 

[Franklin]

巴基斯坦每日时报最新报道，在中国新疆和田进行的代号沙辛-2联合空军对抗军演，中国空军主角歼10对抗巴军幻影3 单机对抗到双机战术对抗，巴方飞行员透露了战况结果，在超视距空战中巴方幻影3被歼10锁定七次，歼10被锁定三次。




在空中近距离格斗方面，巴方结果只被锁定两次。而歼10却被幻影3的飞行员锁定达到六次。对抗之后巴方飞行员认为中国战机属于典型三代战机，在超视距方面占有绝对优势，但空中近距离格斗则战术死板，中国飞行员飞行动作很循规蹈矩，如果派出同规格战机，巴方坚信会取得压到性胜利。目前中方还未作出战况评论。



acording to pakistan media,during joint exercise between PAF and PLAAF,one on one simulated BVR dogfight between J-10 and Mirage-3,result was Mirage-3 was "lock" or shoot down 7 times by j-10,while J-10 was "shoot down" 3 times by mirage-3.
in close in dogfight,mirage-3 was target locked 3 times,while J-10 was "locked" 6 times.
if this was real combat, PAF could have claim aerial victory,there's no reply from Chinese side.

I think those PAF Mirage III got a upgrade in the 1990's those are not the same planes of the 1960's. The PAF has a very impressive track record in the 1960's and 1970's against Israel and India. I don't know how well they have been able to keep up their tradition since then. China needs more of these types of exercises to discover the faults in their training, tactics and technology to make improvements. And can people who have access to the Pakistani media confirm this ?

 

[plawolf]

If it looks like bull and smells like bull, it probably is bull. Mirage 3s getting beat 7/3 in BVR against J10s is fishy enough, winning 6/3 in WVR is download unbelievable. So on the face of it, the story is suspicious enough.

Then lets have a look at the providence of the story. Posted by the alt of a former member banned for posting baseless BS negative stories about China, claiming to be sourced from Pakistani news no one else have heard anything about, and as far as anyone can tell, first posted on some random Chinese BBS.

If the origin of the story was really as claimed, we should have seen the story break on English language forums like Pakdefence and only translated into Chinese later.

I don't frequent Pakdefence, but I would expect Indian fanboys to be plastering this everywhere before it was translated into Chinese if it was posted there. So I am calling BS on this story. And I suggest the mods have a look at the IP address of Hardware, and if he is Challenge, he should 'stay gone', as the dark lord would put it.

 

[rhino123]

Lets put Hardware up for a challenge.

"Show us a legit source, not just some Chinese words that can be written by anyone, even yourself for whatever reasons. And lets also show some source on the Pakistani Media, because no one seemed to be able to find that claim by Pakistan. And after that, then can any of us take you seriously."

If you don't respond, then you are either a coward or just a troll trying to pull a fast one.

Happy with that challenge or are you again going to hide in your shell and ignore this post?

 

[siegecrossbow]

If it looks like bull and smells like bull, it probably is bull. Mirage 3s getting beat 7/3 in BVR against J10s is fishy enough, winning 6/3 in WVR is download unbelievable. So on the face of it, the story is suspicious enough.

Then lets have a look at the providence of the story. Posted by the alt of a former member banned for posting baseless BS negative stories about China, claiming to be sourced from Pakistani news no one else have heard anything about, and as far as anyone can tell, first posted on some random Chinese BBS.

If the origin of the story was really as claimed, we should have seen the story break on English language forums like Pakdefence and only translated into Chinese later.

I don't frequent Pakdefence, but I would expect Indian fanboys to be plastering this everywhere before it was translated into Chinese if it was posted there. So I am calling BS on this story. And I suggest the mods have a look at the IP address of Hardware, and if he is Challenge, he should 'stay gone', as the dark lord would put it.

Your hunch is, as it usually is, correct. The new is complete B.S. fabricated by a troll on the f-y-j-s forum. The original article the guy quoted is here:

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

ISLAMABAD - Air operations are being conducted to validate joint air power employment concepts in the ongoing joint air exercise 'Shaheen-II', between the Pakistan Air Force (PAF) and Chinese Air Force (PLAAF).
The exercise involves complex air operations for mutual learning as well as improving the coordination of both the air forces, said a Pakistan Air Force (PAF) Press release issued here on Sunday.
The exercise 'Shaheen-II' is providing an opportunity to combat crew of both the air forces to acquaint themselves with applied tactics of air power in near real scenario.
It is pertinent to mention that the first exercise of this series 'Shaheen-I' took place in March 2011 in Pakistan at an operational air base of PAF.
The PAF conducts such exercises on regular intervals both inland and abroad. It has been participating in a number of international air exercises with some of the best air forces of the world, including the United States Air Force (USAF), Italian Air Force, Turkish Air Force (TuAF), Royal Saudi Air Force, Jordanian Air Force and those of other allied countries.

Note how the they never mentioned how the J-10 fared against the Mirage III - because this is complete bull and complete fabrication. If the news is authentic, where is the original article in English?

This news has caused quite a bit of stir on Chinese military forums. The original thread has been deleted on ****, and the perpetrator is probably banned. But the damage is done. A lot of military forums, like Zhonghua, tiexue, and even CJDBY are quoting the original thread as "official baidu news".

I urge sinodefence members to exercise extreme caution when accepting news from Chinese websites, even from so-called big shrimps. We know for a fact that big news networks like the WSJ and Times are frequenting our forums, and that journalists these days care less about accurate reporting than getting sensationalist headlines to the web and attracting clicks. I don't want sinodefence to become a source of B.S. news on the internet, as it would hurt our credibility.

 

[Schumacher]

I have no idea if it's true but don't know what the fuss it's about, and have no problem believing it either.
Even F22 get beaten in dogfights by non-stealth jets sometimes. Others with generational gaps like F15/16 getting beaten by F5/A4/Mig21 etc in WVR is not uncommon as well.
And with exercises, rules of engagements are often less than 100% real life anyway.

PAF pilots are after all among the best dog-fighters there are. I'd even put them above USAF. I don't think they'll compare too badly against the Israelis either.