J-10 Thread III (Closed to posting)

[Zahid]

Hope this makes the J-10 fans happy:

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Synopsis:

In a PLANAF exercise, Su-30s flown by the "Blue", or aggressor units, were the first to detect the "RED" J-10s. The Red J-10, however, were able to lock on to the Su-30 first, but the Su-30 countered by closing in the gap. When the J-10 got on the Su-30 tail in a dogfight, it shook the lock using electronic countermeasures.

Pretty exciting match.

I hope that J-10B with lesser RCS would be able to get closer before being detected. Also, if SU-30 is able to shake missile lock with ECM, then CAC needs to ensure that J-10 is able to do the same. But then the question is, what type of missile was it whose lock was shaken? If it was IR missile, then what good are ECMs once it is in the air? If it was a Radar guided, BVR sort, then what good was it being on SU-30's tail? Something does not seem right. Or perhaps I am missing something.

 

[hardware]

巴基斯坦每日时报最新报道，在中国新疆和田进行的代号沙辛-2联合空军对抗军演，中国空军主角歼10对抗巴军幻影3 单机对抗到双机战术对抗，巴方飞行员透露了战况结果，在超视距空战中巴方幻影3被歼10锁定七次，歼10被锁定三次。




在空中近距离格斗方面，巴方结果只被锁定两次。而歼10却被幻影3的飞行员锁定达到六次。对抗之后巴方飞行员认为中国战机属于典型三代战机，在超视距方面占有绝对优势，但空中近距离格斗则战术死板，中国飞行员飞行动作很循规蹈矩，如果派出同规格战机，巴方坚信会取得压到性胜利。目前中方还未作出战况评论。



acording to pakistan media,during joint exercise between PAF and PLAAF,one on one simulated BVR dogfight between J-10 and Mirage-3,result was Mirage-3 was "lock" or shoot down 7 times by j-10,while J-10 was "shoot down" 3 times by mirage-3.
in close in dogfight,mirage-3 was target locked 3 times,while J-10 was "locked" 6 times.
if this was real combat, PAF could have claim aerial victory,there's no reply from Chinese side.

 

[antiterror13]

巴基斯坦每日时报最新报道，在中国新疆和田进行的代号沙辛-2联合空军对抗军演，中国空军主角歼10对抗巴军幻影3 单机对抗到双机战术对抗，巴方飞行员透露了战况结果，在超视距空战中巴方幻影3被歼10锁定七次，歼10被锁定三次。




在空中近距离格斗方面，巴方结果只被锁定两次。而歼10却被幻影3的飞行员锁定达到六次。对抗之后巴方飞行员认为中国战机属于典型三代战机，在超视距方面占有绝对优势，但空中近距离格斗则战术死板，中国飞行员飞行动作很循规蹈矩，如果派出同规格战机，巴方坚信会取得压到性胜利。目前中方还未作出战况评论。



acording to pakistan media,during joint exercise between PAF and PLAAF,one on one simulated BVR dogfight between J-10 and Mirage-3,result was Mirage-3 was "lock" or shoot down 7 times by j-10,while J-10 was "shoot down" 3 times by mirage-3.
in close in dogfight,mirage-3 was target locked 3 times,while J-10 was "locked" 6 times.
if this was real combat, PAF could have claim aerial victory,there's no reply from Chinese side.

dogfight is in the past. I'd bet even F-22 would have a hard time beating Mirage-3 or J-7G in a dogfight

I didn't know that Mirage-3 can do BVR ... how ?

 

[kwaigonegin]

巴基斯坦每日时报最新报道，在中国新疆和田进行的代号沙辛-2联合空军对抗军演，中国空军主角歼10对抗巴军幻影3 单机对抗到双机战术对抗，巴方飞行员透露了战况结果，在超视距空战中巴方幻影3被歼10锁定七次，歼10被锁定三次。




在空中近距离格斗方面，巴方结果只被锁定两次。而歼10却被幻影3的飞行员锁定达到六次。对抗之后巴方飞行员认为中国战机属于典型三代战机，在超视距方面占有绝对优势，但空中近距离格斗则战术死板，中国飞行员飞行动作很循规蹈矩，如果派出同规格战机，巴方坚信会取得压到性胜利。目前中方还未作出战况评论。



acording to pakistan media,during joint exercise between PAF and PLAAF,one on one simulated BVR dogfight between J-10 and Mirage-3,result was Mirage-3 was "lock" or shoot down 7 times by j-10,while J-10 was "shoot down" 3 times by mirage-3.
in close in dogfight,mirage-3 was target locked 3 times,while J-10 was "locked" 6 times.
if this was real combat, PAF could have claim aerial victory,there's no reply from Chinese side.

If what you say is true than I have to say the quality of Chinese fighter pilots would be highly questionable. J-10 is a good generation or more better than the Mirage 3 and there is no excuse they should have that type of score card unless something funny is going on. Even against good fighter pilots they should still win more dogfights in the J-10. If PAF pilots are that good then you put them in a plane like J10B, J-20 or even F-16 Blk 52+and they would be pretty much invincible.

What I like to see if to have PAF and PLAAF pilots in more comparable aircraft types (F-16Cs vs J10As) conducting simulated battles to truly gauge the quality of each nation's pilots. PLAAF will probably get creamed if the report is true!

At any rate let me go put on my kevlar because I probably just offended a bunch of folks here..

 

[Hyperwarp]

巴基斯坦每日时报最新报道，在中国新疆和田进行的代号沙辛-2联合空军对抗军演，中国空军主角歼10对抗巴军幻影3 单机对抗到双机战术对抗，巴方飞行员透露了战况结果，在超视距空战中巴方幻影3被歼10锁定七次，歼10被锁定三次。




在空中近距离格斗方面，巴方结果只被锁定两次。而歼10却被幻影3的飞行员锁定达到六次。对抗之后巴方飞行员认为中国战机属于典型三代战机，在超视距方面占有绝对优势，但空中近距离格斗则战术死板，中国飞行员飞行动作很循规蹈矩，如果派出同规格战机，巴方坚信会取得压到性胜利。目前中方还未作出战况评论。



acording to pakistan media,during joint exercise between PAF and PLAAF,one on one simulated BVR dogfight between J-10 and Mirage-3,result was Mirage-3 was "lock" or shoot down 7 times by j-10,while J-10 was "shoot down" 3 times by mirage-3.
in close in dogfight,mirage-3 was target locked 3 times,while J-10 was "locked" 6 times.
if this was real combat, PAF could have claim aerial victory,there's no reply from Chinese side.

Assuming these results are true/accurate, then I would agree. J-10 is like a generation ahead of the Mirage-III yet managed lock/shoot the J-10 3/10 times in BVR and 6/10 time in WVR.

Either the,
* PAF pilots are even better than I thought, or
* PLAAF pilots really suck, or
* the J-10 is not as near as good as people thought, or
* PLAAF had very restrictive ROE, or
* combination of above, or
* something went badly wrong.

 

[no_name]

The chinese WVR tactical maneuvers were too predictable.

 

[kwaigonegin]

The chinese WVR tactical maneuvers were too predictable.

Then they better consider revamping their entire air doctrine because predictability = death in an actual war.

 

[Blitzo]

Assuming these results are true/accurate, then I would agree. J-10 is like a generation ahead of the Mirage-III yet managed lock/shoot the J-10 3/10 times in BVR and 6/10 time in WVR.

Either the,
* PAF pilots are even better than I thought, or
* PLAAF pilots really suck, or
* the J-10 is not as near as good as people thought, or
* PLAAF had very restrictive ROE, or
* combination of above, or
* something went badly wrong.

Funny, because siege mentioned that the results were completely opposite to what challenge is describing here, so I wonder who's right where.

 

[kwaigonegin]

Funny, because siege mentioned that the results were completely opposite to what challenge is describing here, so I wonder who's right where.

the way I look at it is even if it's reverse it's still bad.. everything being equal a J-10 against a Mirage III should be 10/0 or 9/1 or at worst 8/2 but no more due to pilot error or luck.. anything more means it's systemic and you need to throw away your training manual.

 

[Hyperwarp]

dogfight is in the past. I'd bet even F-22 would have a hard time beating Mirage-3 or J-7G in a dogfight

I didn't know that Mirage-3 can do BVR ... how ?

F-22 is more than capable at WVR. It also has a gun because the designers didn't take any chances. WVR is hear to stay. F-22 armed with AIM-9M goes up against F/A-18E/F & aggressor F-15 armed with AIM-9X + JHMCS. The F-22 was locked-on/shot-down a few time but overall in came out pretty good. BVR was a complete whitewash. Not even the Eurofighter or Rafale could detect it let alone shoot it down in BVR. But when it came to WVR 4.5 gen planes (EF, Rafale, etc) armed with Mica-IR, ASRAAM, IRIS-T with HMD gets the upper hand on F-22. But, thats because the F-22 is actually handicapped by its OWN systems (lack of AIM-9X and HMD).

This is not the case with the J-10 Vs Mirage-III. I can't even begin to imagine the massacre if the J-10 went against the F-16C/D of the PAF. If, i repeat if this is true then the PLAAF got nice wake-up call.