J-10 Thread III (Closed to posting)

[hardware]

the biggest threat to Bangladesh was internal (think of syria,somalia...) not external,why attempted to purchase ,when they really need is helos and attack drone.

 

[broadsword]

what do the bangladesh AF want to do with so much fire power? to bomb burma?

Oh, I just found out: Burma has bought 20 Mig-29s from Russia. That could explain why they want J-10s.

 

[rhino123]

That's a straw man you created. I did not say their sympathy will lead them to bomb Burma. They can show their sympathy in other ways without actually bombing Burma.




You did not say that in your post. This is what you say in your post


"And who knows, they might need it for urgent combat needs, or they want to evaluate the fighter's capability and whatever."

In no way did I find the first part per se offensive. The latter part of your statement is so asinine that I had to answer with




We can rule out insurgency because it does not have. You can also rule out terrorism. And of course you can rule out evaluation. Can you understand now why I disagreed with you?

Okay. Lets look back.

1) Hardware say they get the J-10 with that much firepower for what? To bomb Burma?
2) I retort, saying it might be a magnitude of reasons, one of them might be for evaluation, which everyone disagree and I respected that, but that is not the point of my comments, but... oh well.
3) Then you say that hardware's prediction might be more accurate (which is the bombing of Burma)

Doesn't matter. There is no might be situation. I think Hardware is closer to the real situation. And you examples make no sense even in a classroom.

4) I told you that they are not at war, so why would they bomb Burma.
5) Then somehow you agreed saying that Bangladesh are not in a state of war. Without admitting that your previous support is wrong.

The question to ask is whether they want to start an arms race even though it is quite common. They got second hand navy ships from China and to get a top of the line fighter is going to signal a new direction. It's not that they are in a state of war with any country now and they are not rich like Saudi Arabia to buy outright.

6) So I question you, which is which. If you support Hardware's scenario that Bangladesh had loan those aircrafts to bomb Burma, but they are not at a state of war? Doesn't make sense.
7) And you say they are not in a state of war with Burma but it is sympathetic to the Muslim there, so there is no contradiction. Which mean, sympathetic to Muslim there give them enough reason to Bomb Burma, since there is no contradiction.

They are not in a state of war with Burma but it is sympathetic to the Muslims there. There is no contradiction. But neither is there a "might be" situation of them buying a squadron to evaluate. It is so inconceivable so someone has to point it out. It's not nitpicking.

So... Anyone that is not blind here could actually see... who is creating a strawman.

or more likely, who is flipflopping all the time?

Plus, did I accusing you of saying that loaning the plane is silly? Funny that you bring that up. What I meant is that the notion to use the loaned plane to bomb Burma is as silly as the notion of using it as evaluation (which for your record. Until now, I still find that notion of evaluation not too silly, but that is just my personal opinion.)

I respect the last part of your comments, but what I am trying to bring out and had been trying to bring out, is that the evaluation thingy is just a scenario, it might be a stupid and silly scenario, but no less sillier than the notion of Bangladesh wanting it to bomb Burma.

The whole idea... and I have been telling you that, is that there are heaps of reasons. If you keep wanting to just bite on the evaluation thingy that I have mentioned, then there really is nothing I could do.

 

[rhino123]

the biggest threat to Bangladesh was internal (think of syria,somalia...) not external,why attempted to purchase ,when they really need is helos and attack drone.

Oh, I just found out: Burma has bought 20 Mig-29s from Russia. That could explain why they want J-10s.

And may I remind you... Bangladesh did not buy the J-10A? They are requesting a loan. Loaning something and buying something is different, I hope you see the difference in it.

So in a sense, Bangladesh had not committed to buying the squadron of J-10A, they are on loan from the Chinese. And so they might not buy the squadron in the end and go for other planes like JF-17 and/or Russian Mig-29 in the end.

via cdf

Bangladesh air force chief returned from China. He requested loan for one squadron of J-10A fighters, LY-80 MRSAM, laser guided bombs, technology for making guided munitions, big quantity of ammo for fighter aircraft. Summary from:

 

[broadsword]

Okay. Lets look back.

1) Hardware say they get the J-10 with that much firepower for what? To bomb Burma?
2) I retort, saying it might be a magnitude of reasons, one of them might be for evaluation, which everyone disagree and I respected that, but that is not the point of my comments, but... oh well.

I'm the only one who disagreed with replies. You did not respect it until now. If you had let your pride get to you but just just say "my bad", etc. there would be no further issue. It is not the point of your comments? You included it among the possible reasons for the J-10s.

3) Then you say that hardware's prediction might be more accurate (which is the bombing of Burma)

4) I told you that they are not at war, so why would they bomb Burma.
5) Then somehow you agreed saying that Bangladesh are not in a state of war. Without admitting that your previous support is wrong.

6) So I question you, which is which. If you support Hardware's scenario that Bangladesh had loan those aircrafts to bomb Burma, but they are not at a state of war? Doesn't make sense.
7) And you say they are not in a state of war with Burma but it is sympathetic to the Muslim there, so there is no contradiction. Which mean, sympathetic to Muslim there give them enough reason to Bomb Burma, since there is no contradiction.


So... Anyone that is not blind here could actually see... who is creating a strawman.

or more likely, who is flipflopping all the time?

There is absolutely no contradiction with what I said. My reply that Hardware's statement was more accurate and then
Bangladesh is not in a state of war are not in conflict, because closer is not yet = bombing and in this case closer <> state of war. But they do have some sympathy for the Rohan Muslims living in Burma. You just do not know whether closer will = state of war going forward, say 10 years later. It's all a matter of degrees.

Plus, did I accusing you of saying that loaning the plane is silly? Funny that you bring that up. What I meant is that the notion to use the loaned plane to bomb Burma is as silly as the notion of using it as evaluation (which for your record. Until now, I still find that notion of evaluation not too silly, but that is just my personal opinion.)

I respect the last part of your comments, but what I am trying to bring out and had been trying to bring out, is that the evaluation thingy is just a scenario, it might be a stupid and silly scenario, but no less sillier than the notion of Bangladesh wanting it to bomb Burma.


The whole idea... and I have been telling you that, is that there are heaps of reasons. If you keep wanting to just bite on the evaluation thingy that I have mentioned, then there really is nothing I could do.

Your first sentence, if you meant that I said loaning the plane is silly, I did not say it. Not per se. But I ruled out the reasons it could be use for. And now you find the notion of evaluation not too silly? Talk about flip-flopping. That is the opinion that I have beef with, even if it is only 'might be'. There's nothing wrong to debunk a wrong 'might be' situations. This is what a forum is for.

But let's agree to disagree: that you think it might be for evaluation and I don't think so.

 

[Jeff Head]

T2contra and rhino123, I can hear Darth Vador's footsteps and heavy breath. My advice is to just let it drop...he or another mod will probably do a clean up on this aisle soon.

 

[broadsword]

And may I remind you... Bangladesh did not buy the J-10A? They are requesting a loan. Loaning something and buying something is different, I hope you see the difference in it.

So in a sense, Bangladesh had not committed to buying the squadron of J-10A, they are on loan from the Chinese. And so they might not buy the squadron in the end and go for other planes like JF-17 and/or Russian Mig-29 in the end.

via cdf

Whether it is on loan or outright purchase does not affect the purpose of the fighters discussed here.

 

[broadsword]

T2contra and rhino123, I can hear Darth Vador's footsteps and heavy breath. My advice is to just let it drop...he or snother mod will probably do a clean up on this aisle soon.

I rather it be cleaned up.

 

[rhino123]

I'm the only one who disagreed with replies. You did not respect it until now. If you had let your pride get to you but just just say "my bad", etc. there would be no further issue. It is not the point of your comments? You included it among the possible reasons for the J-10s.




There is absolutely no contradiction with what I said. My reply that Hardware's statement was more accurate and then
Bangladesh is not in a state of war are not in conflict, because closer is not yet = bombing and in this case closer <> state of war. But they do have some sympathy for the Rohan Muslims living in Burma. You just do not know whether closer will = state of war going forward, say 10 years later. It's all a matter of degrees.



Your first sentence, if you meant that I said loaning the plane is silly, I did not say it. Not per se. But I ruled out the reasons it could be use for. And now you find the notion of evaluation not too silly? Talk about flip-flopping. That is the opinion that I have beef with, even if it is only 'might be'. There's nothing wrong to debunk a wrong 'might be' situations. This is what a forum is for.

But let's agree to disagree: that you think it might be for evaluation and I don't think so.

Okay. Before things get ugly. One final explanation. I know it will get clean up soon, but... I need to say my points.

Like I say... and have said... all along, my points is... "There are many reasons out there for Bangladesh to want to LOAN the plane. Evaluation for one reasons." There... is it that hard to understand? Geez.

Second, what pride? What do you mean by that? I have done nothing wrong, just state my point, I respect your point, but I never say I agreed with them.

Third...

"There is absolutely no contradiction with what I said. My reply that Hardware's statement was more accurate and then
Bangladesh is not in a state of war are not in conflict, because closer is not yet = bombing and in this case closer <> state of war. But they do have some sympathy for the Rohan Muslims living in Burma. You just do not know whether closer will = state of war going forward, say 10 years later. It's all a matter of degrees. "

That is a bit pushing the limit don't you think so? If by then, anything can happen. It is just like saying Country A is not at war at Country B, but who knows in ten years time, Country A will not be at war with Country B? I mean come on! You mean that? Seriously?

Yes, we can agree to disagree. But again... not at the silly notion of getting the plane for evaluation. That is just one of the scenario I had painted... I have pull that out from my arse, and if it offended anyone, sorry.

Again, the main gist of my comment is...

"There are plenty of reasons why Bangladesh wanted the plane. And all other scenario I painted is just... well... simple scenario. Thats all. Nothing else."

 

[rhino123]

Whether it is on loan or outright purchase does not affect the purpose of the fighters discussed here.

No. It affect all the thing being discussed.

It is loan, which mean the plane don't belong to Bangladesh. It is just on loan. For whatever reason. And if your notion is that this move was to counter Burma buying 20 Mig29, then it don't make sense. When Burma buy the Mig-29, the Mig-29 is Burma's with no amount of timeframe, be it 10 years or 20 years. Bangladesh could not loan the aircrafts for 10 years or 20 years. there is a limitation to the time these J-10A would be in Bangladesh's arsenal.

And if really there is a war or conflict... say after Bangladesh returned the aircraft, then it will be disaster, don't you think so?

My point is... loaning and purchase make hell of a different. Plus when loaning an aircraft, obviously the aircraft is not Bangladesh and they are expected to return the aircraft in good or pristine condition, just like you loan a car, you cannot take that car out for a spin, crash it, then return it as if nothing happen. However, if you buy that car, take it out for a spin, crash it, and no one would say a word (unless you break the law or what). Does it make sense now?