J-10 Thread III (Closed to posting)

[Blitzo]

the way I look at it is even if it's reverse it's still bad.. everything being equal a J-10 against a Mirage III should be 10/0 or 10/1 or at worst 10/2 but no more due to pilot error or luck.. anything more means it's systemic and you need to throw away your training manual.

By "opposite" I mean that PLAAF J-10s and J-7s wiped the floor with PAF mirages and J-7PGs (no kill death ratios given, as far as I can remember).

I wonder, do most nations report the kill death ratios of various international fighter air combat exercises? Red flag for instance?

 

[kwaigonegin]

dogfight is in the past. I'd bet even F-22 would have a hard time beating Mirage-3 or J-7G in a dogfight

I didn't know that Mirage-3 can do BVR ... how ?

impossible! unless the F-22 is piloted by someone like me whose experience is that on a twin seat cessna. The only way a Mirage III or J-7G can beat a F-22 in WVR is if they are equip with HOBS (high off boresight) system like IRIS-T type SRAAM, AIM-9X and helmet sight.

As for BVR I think even most of us here can probably shoot down a Mirage III or J7 in an F-22 after couple days in a simulator for the simple reason that we get to fire first no matter how good the other pilot is.

 

[Blitzo]

So.... Is challenge gonna provide us a source at least?

 

[rhino123]

巴基斯坦每日时报最新报道，在中国新疆和田进行的代号沙辛-2联合空军对抗军演，中国空军主角歼10对抗巴军幻影3 单机对抗到双机战术对抗，巴方飞行员透露了战况结果，在超视距空战中巴方幻影3被歼10锁定七次，歼10被锁定三次。




在空中近距离格斗方面，巴方结果只被锁定两次。而歼10却被幻影3的飞行员锁定达到六次。对抗之后巴方飞行员认为中国战机属于典型三代战机，在超视距方面占有绝对优势，但空中近距离格斗则战术死板，中国飞行员飞行动作很循规蹈矩，如果派出同规格战机，巴方坚信会取得压到性胜利。目前中方还未作出战况评论。



acording to pakistan media,during joint exercise between PAF and PLAAF,one on one simulated BVR dogfight between J-10 and Mirage-3,result was Mirage-3 was "lock" or shoot down 7 times by j-10,while J-10 was "shoot down" 3 times by mirage-3.
in close in dogfight,mirage-3 was target locked 3 times,while J-10 was "locked" 6 times.
if this was real combat, PAF could have claim aerial victory,there's no reply from Chinese side.

Normally I would not take Hardware's post seriously. And like now... it is just a bunch of Chinese words that can be written by anyone... even himself. And no links to any substantial references... not even one that is dodgy.

And many of what he said was either half true or totally misinformation.

 

[hardware]

PAF Mirage-3 were retrofitted with italian radar.this allow mirage-3 a limited BVR capability.

 

[SinoSoldier]

PAF F-16s have been known to be able to defeat Eurofighters, so these mock combat exercises are little representation of what a real fight is like.

Again, little information about the exercise was given, including the EW support that each side had, the general layout of the exercise, the constraints, and most importantly, the training of the pilots. Don't be mistaken, PAF pilots were extremely experienced and feared during its many wars with India, and in fact broke a few records. A British observer during one war with India claimed that the PAF pilots reminded him of British pilots in 1940.

 

[SinoSoldier]

F-22 is more than capable at WVR. It also has a gun because the designers didn't take any chances. WVR is hear to stay. F-22 armed with AIM-9M goes up against F/A-18E/F & aggressor F-15 armed with AIM-9X + JHMCS. The F-22 was locked-on/shot-down a few time but overall in came out pretty good. BVR was a complete whitewash. Not even the Eurofighter or Rafale could detect it let alone shoot it down in BVR. But when it came to WVR 4.5 gen planes (EF, Rafale, etc) armed with Mica-IR, ASRAAM, IRIS-T with HMD gets the upper hand on F-22. But, thats because the F-22 is actually handicapped by its OWN systems (lack of AIM-9X and HMD).

This is not the case with the J-10 Vs Mirage-III. I can't even begin to imagine the massacre if the J-10 went against the F-16C/D of the PAF. If, i repeat if this is true then the PLAAF got nice wake-up call.

The PLAAF is up for a bloody day if they ever exercise with future PAF J-10Bs, assuming, of course, that the information was correct.

 

[Blitzo]

PAF Mirage-3 were retrofitted with italian radar.this allow mirage-3 a limited BVR capability.

I'm surprised more people aren't familiar with the ROSE upgrade.
Anyway, you should still link to the original source of this claim you made, mostly because it's seen as outlandish.



I'm still not sure whether we should take it half seriously or not.

 

[hardware]

remember this, just 20 years ago, PLAAF still flying Mig-19,Mig-21 and even mig-17,according to the US,average pilots has only 200 hr. of flying time! that is below the USAF minimum 350(?) hr.by contrast,PAF pilot honed by US and british pilots,participate in Red Flag exercise and acted as co intructor in gulf region and saude arabia AF and Iran (before the 79's revolution).

 

[kwaigonegin]

I'm surprised more people aren't familiar with the ROSE upgrade.
Anyway, you should still link to the original source of this claim you made, mostly because it's seen as outlandish.



I'm still not sure whether we should take it half seriously or not.

I agree... if one claims the Mirage III can convincingly beat the J10 especially in WVR not to mention BVR you should quote realiable sources. That's like saying F-4 Phantoms can wipe the floor clean with late model F-16Cs. Not saying it can't happen but you should have at least good sources to back up that statement.