J-10 Thread III (Closed to posting)

[SinoSoldier]

¦^��: Re: New J-10 Thread III

That scenerio is very likely assuming NK did what you say they did however I hate to think it because it can potentially lead to very very bad things for everyone involved and those who aren't. If China mounts a full blown invasion of NK with US/SK troops already in there, we better hope the 'red' phone is working and that politicians are very very calm, smart and cool when they talk to each other.

Honestly the US/ROK forces would also have to consider their own consequences since they would be invaders too.

 

[siegecrossbow]

August 1st arrived in Russia for the J-10 demo. Russia is covering the costs for the performance. It will be their first time performing abroad, I believe.

 

[plawolf]

That is one scenario I have never contemplated. You mean, PLA fighting alongside the US (and South Korea) against China's ally North Korea?

Less fighting alongside, and more a race against. And it would be mainly a reactionary move to extrememcircumstances rather than a co-ordinated and premeditated betral.

NK has no chance militarily against SK let alone anyone else, and they only have deterrants in the form of nukes and the threat their artillery pose to Seoul and other SK population centres. For a war to break out at all between NK and SK+US would necessitate that either SK+US has managed to effectively neutralise NK's deterrence, or NK finally went over the edge and blew their load themselves, or if NK collapsed internally.

For the first two scenarios, especially if NK used nukes, I cannot see China supporting them as that would very likely drag China into a direct nuclear war with the US. In such a scenario, assuming the US does not just glass all of NK, the only move China has other than sit on its hands and do nothing is to mount special forces ops and air strikes to secure or take out NK's remaining WMD stocks ASAP before they actually do force a nuclear response from the US.

As the saying goes, in for a penny in for a pound, if the PLA is already mounting SpecOps raids and air strikes on NK targets, the PLA might as well mount a full scale invasion as well to ostensively to help root out WMD and to help end the war ASAP to minimise damage and loss of life, but mainly to secure a buffer zone and gain bargaining chips to negotiated with with SK and America after the dust settles.

A similar situation would apply in the event of the toppling of the NK regime by internal strife, and with the demise of that regime, so would China's obligations under their mutual defence pact with NK, and the PLA would move in to provide stability and to make sure NK's WMD and conventional weapons arsenals do not fall into the wrong hands. In this scenario, it would likely be US and SK special forces mounting raids and launching air strikes to secure and/or take out NK's nukes and other WMD stocks.

 

[plawolf]

Re: ¦^��: Re: New J-10 Thread III

The Chinese Su-30MKK/MK2 are not compatible with Chinese weapons, and they are limited in numbers. So unless China rushes the J-16 into service, or perhaps a couple of land based J-15S, their hitting capability will be seriously impeded.

It is important for the J-10 to be able to fire all kinds of weaponry in the vast Chinese arsenal to maintain the ability to add flexibility for the Chinese commanders. We are past the age of specialized aircraft.

China has nearly 100 MKK/MK2 strikers, I don't think anyone can call such a fleet 'limited in numbers'.

You are probably correct about them not being compatible with Chinese weapons, but it is not outside the realm of possibility that they might be compatible. China has had those birds a long time now, even if we rule out things like China cracking the source codes to the radars and avionics systems or setting up factories to mass produced cloned Russian PGMs, there is little deep integration needed to mount Chinese LGBs or GPS guided bombs on the Su30s and make them work. Certainly in the timeframe and with China's expertise, it is hardly a difficult thing to achieve.

China has been operating the Su30 for nearly two decades now, and they have not upgraded their radars and avionics in all that time that we know of. That seems a little unusual, and I think the reason for that is that China has pretty substantial stockpiles of Russian PGMs, and they do not want to make those weapons useless by upgrading those Su30s with Chinese radars and avionics. Remember that when China bought those Su30s, a war over Taiwan was a very real and even likely scenario, so China would have bought those Su30s to fight and win wars, not just for show, thus a huge PGM purchase is very likely.

Given the likely vast Russian munitions stores and relative ease China could integrate LGBs and GPS guided bombs on the Su30s, I do not believe their hitting power would be limited at all. If that was the case, the PLAAF would have upgraded their ancient radars and avionics years ago with Chinese kit.

The J16 is more a long term replacement programme for the Su30s since they are getting a little long in the tooth rather than a supplementary programme. If China was serious concerned with their Su30's weapons options, a radar and avionics upgrade would be a far cheaper and quicker solution than building brand new J16s.

But the main reason for not rushing to make the J10's multirole is the question of just what targets do you expect them to hit?

 

[Blitzo]

The 200+ JH-7As are not to be dismissed if we're trying to measure the PLA's hitting power -- they may not be integrated with PGMs per se, but they can carry the entire KD-88 series, ARMs and AShMs. In a conflict with the US and its allies, PLA strike fighters won't easily get within freefall PGM (JDAM, paveway type) launch distance (whether due to CAP or air defences), so 100+ km stand off weapons are probably the most useful weapon at the PLA's disposal.

Of course JH-7As lack the kinematic performance of strike flankers or J-10, but make up for it by carrying a higher payload and simply relying on supersonic dash to gtfo once they've let their load go.

In fact, I don't think many countries have as many dedicated single purpose strikers as the PLA does in their JH-7As, apart from USAF and Russia.

But the main reason for not rushing to make the J10's multirole is the question of just what targets do you expect them to hit?

+1 I also expect that J-10s role will be relegated to A2A, mostly because as I said above, PLA has quite a surplus of single purpose strikers already.

 

[no_name]

H-6 is like a downgraded version of B-52 and JH-7, the B-1. Compared to their counterpart they are for offense as a credible defense rather than pure offense.

China need something that fills the role of B-2.

 

[rhino123]

China need something that fills the role of B-2.

I believe that is where the Dark Sword UCAV came in. (OT though).

 

[plawolf]

I believe that is where the Dark Sword UCAV came in. (OT though).

Dark Sword is a tactical strike drone concept, it is too small for strategic strike missions. There are rumours that China is developing a B2 like stealth flying wing strategic bomber, but is unclear at this stage how solid those rumours are.

 

[Totoro]

I've always wondered about actual proof that PLANAF's JH7 fleet is integratd with anyhting else other than antiship missiles. Similarly, PLAAF's JH7 fleet may not be integrated with anything useful for antishipping missions. Do we have images that suggest otherwise?

 

[Lion]

I've always wondered about actual proof that PLANAF's JH7 fleet is integratd with anyhting else other than antiship missiles. Similarly, PLAAF's JH7 fleet may not be integrated with anything useful for antishipping missions. Do we have images that suggest otherwise?

I bet you have not read JH-7 thread often. Search yourself in that thread.