franco-russe
Senior Member
Yes, J10A0613.
J-10 Thread III (Closed to posting)
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Yes, J10A0613.
thunderchief
Senior Member
Пилотажная группа китайских ВВС "1 августа" будет выступать на многоцелевых истребителях Chengdu J-10. В шоу будет участвовать шесть машин, укомплектованных российскими двигателями АЛ-31ФН.
Russians didn't fail to mention AL-31FN
On the other hand MAKS is not just an air show , there is also a commercial aspect . Participation of J-10 may hint to Chinese-Russian cooperation in selling these aircraft to third parties .well, if you noted, I was loyal and didn't make citationsRussians didn't fail to mention AL-31FN
anyway, I'm happy for they coming here
wonder also about their waypoints on the way to UUBW
I doubt that. Why would russia cooperate in selling a rival plane?
I think that the reason why 1st august formation is coming to russia is to reciprocate the presence of russian knights formation in zhuhai 2012.
thunderchief
Senior Member
Could be , but in reality J-10 is not a real rival plane for Russians . It's a light-to-medium single-engined multirole fighter comparable to F-16 , something that Russia currently does not offer . Only true competition would be MiG-29 (although heavier and two-engined) but in reality MiG-29 doesn't sell well (unlike Su-30) . In fact , only new Mig-29s sold after dissolution of USSR went to India (Mig-29K) just because Su-33 could not fit well on INS Vikramidtya . There are rumors and talks about selling Mig-29M to Syria and Serbia , but that's just because both countries lack money and need soft loans from Russia to purchase planes . Rest of the Mig-29s sold after dissolution of USSR were old Mig-29s from Soviet stock , refurbished to SMT standard .
On the other hand , with J-10 Russians could get at least part of the profit from traditional Chinese clients like Pakistan , whom are unlikely to buy directly from Russia but would purchase fighters from China . Of course , China would like to cut Russians completely from J-10 story , but in reality that won't happen so soon because twin-engined fighters like J-11 and maybe J-15 got priority for new WS-10 engine .
So , some kind of compromise could be in works : instead of waiting for WS-10 few more years Chinese could accept to share profit with Russians , and Russians could accept they cannot go very far with Mig-29 concept and then earn some money from the engines .
Franticfrank
New Member
Well, don't forget that the Russians have been offering the MIG-29/MIG-35 in various fighter competitions around the world. They did sell those advanced MIG-29s to Algeria only to have them returned where they're now flying for the Russian airforce at an airbase in Kursk.
Whenever they get around to exporting it to countries other than Pakistan, I would certainly call the J-10 a rival to the MIG-29 and F-16 internationally. All are lightweight and short range fighters, and low price might really become the deciding factor in any future deals.
Whenever they get around to exporting it to countries other than Pakistan, I would certainly call the J-10 a rival to the MIG-29 and F-16 internationally. All are lightweight and short range fighters, and low price might really become the deciding factor in any future deals.
thunderchief
Senior Member
Mig-29s offered to Algeria were SMT - old refurbished fighters from Soviet stock . That is way Algerians refused to accept them and instead opted for Su-30 (newly built) . Mikoyan was (and still is) struggling and that contract with India was indeed life saver .
As for F-16 , J-10 cannot really be a competition for it . F-16 is on a sunset of its carrier , but is still sold to pro-American countries around the world . It is usually political decision , so there cannot be a "fair" competition between J-10 and F-16 . As for Pakistan , they got their F-16s practically as a gift (in return for political concession ) . For the same reason Pakistan would not buy Mig-29s no matter how good or bad they are .
Therefore in a number of countries who could not afford Western equipment (or they refuse to sell them) , joint Sino-Russian cooperation on J-10 could be a right and profitable answer .
I seriously do not think China is very keen on selling J-10 around the world. As for J-10, so far the only countries she ever step on is allies like Russia. There is not much marketing effort of selling J-10. Even for the J-10 intend to sold to Pakistan, soft loan is not granted to Pakistan to facilitate the sales and result much in the delay.
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