J-10 Thread III (Closed to posting)

[rhino123]

Deino,


I see that PAF is working beyond Rafale. The real threat will be PAKFA so PAF needs kind of stealth fighterjet to counter. So J31 comes as the most logical choice. Known engine so less headache for maintenance.

I'm sorry... but J-31 is still very much a prototype. What engines will be fitted to the J-31 is still pretty much unknown... might be the WS-10A or something new. And as I understand PAF didn't have any aircraft with WS-10A engines yet. So the engine statement might be a bit too early to say.

 

[jobjed]

I'm sorry... but J-31 is still very much a prototype. What engines will be fitted to the J-31 is still pretty much unknown... might be the WS-10A or something new. And as I understand PAF didn't have any aircraft with WS-10A engines yet. So the engine statement might be a bit too early to say.

Twin WS-10A's on a light-weight fighter? I don't know about you, but that seems like extreme overkill to me. For a plane around the size of the J-31, I expect twin engines with 80-90kn wet thrust to be more than good enough, two 130kn class engines would just be ridiculous.

 

[rhino123]

Twin WS-10A's on a light-weight fighter? I don't know about you, but that seems like extreme overkill to me. For a plane around the size of the J-31, I expect twin engines with 80-90kn wet thrust to be more than good enough, two 130kn class engines would just be ridiculous.

That is also why, I say, there might be something new. And also, presently, that aircraft is pretty much in the prototype stage... anything can happen, it might even grow in size, or changing of 2 engines to a single one.

 

[Deino]

That is also why, I say, there might be something new. And also, presently, that aircraft is pretty much in the prototype stage... anything can happen, it might even grow in size, or changing of 2 engines to a single one.

Surely everything can happen !!! ... someone could even have the idea to add a third engine - by the way why was this never done ??? - but I think it does not make sense to change to two WS-10 or later WS-15, since that tpye would compete with the J-20 and only one of these engines would require a much more complex redesign from two medium-thrust engines two one high-thrust ... as such - and even more with the WS-13 and the "new" 9,5t engine in the pipeline there nearly no chance for such a powerplant change (IMO).

Deino

 

[Munir]

So what is this the annual statements again saying the JF-17 is cancelled and J10B is not on the cards, since 2003 same has been said about the JF17 and the same people are still saying it even after 50 are produced and can carry anti-ship missiles, even after 100 are built people will still talk and say the same thing

Up to November last year 2012, 42 Block I JF17 has been manufactured, most of them have been delivered to 2 Sqaudrons at Peshawar while the last remaining few are at Kamra under test and evaluation, it's standard procedure to home the new JF17 at Kamra before handing over to respective Sqaudrons, I said this a week ago and just a few days ago the Iraqi air force commandore was seen in serial 12-137 not to mention pictures of 12-143 and 12-145 with pictures of 12-148 during assembly

Production rate of JF17 is matching the retirement rate of the older aircraft in the PAF there is no need to go all out and bang 30 units a year when there is no export order, can PAF even absorb 30 new aircraft a year? Answer is no, infact one of the two Sqaudrons is a conversion and operational training Sqaudron as well as frontline line fighter Sqaudron

The last remaining units of Block I might not even raise a 3rd Sqaudron, they might just add them to the two squadrons currently operational

Block II will have air to air refuelling and AWACS integration, anything else is sheer speculation, it won't have WS13 and won't have twin seat again this is just wishful thinking, also unlikey are IRST and whoever once made the comment about conformal fuel tanks, composites is unknown but a possibility

Furthermore the IFR won't be retractable for ease of maintenance, cost and simplicity of construction, the radar is Chinese to allow for easy integration with H2/4 and air launched Ra'ad cruise missiles and launching of CM-400AKG, CM-400AKG have been delivered to Pakistan

And lastly JF17 is a national project, anyone who has visited the PAC will see the small town sized facility Pakistan has established to build this aircraft, to suggest its stopped or canceled shows how much one knows about the project

J10B is a project further down the line, it's a top tier aircraft which will sit above the F16 C/D block 52+, you can see the role level they will take in PAF so it won't be coming anytime soon but will do eventually

Asif,

I can give you the production planning of PAC. It started assembling the first machines in 2007. It is mid 2013. The production rates in 2011-2012 is extremely low. It has nothing to do with absorbing issues or other planes that need to be replaced later. You think F7P is needed now? Or some of the 50 years old Mirages? I like the positive tone but the reality is different. Fact is that we have been pleased with block2 starting up end 2011. Then 2012. Now it is 2013. If yo are telling that it will just have links with AWACS and non retractable IFR... It does sound like the slow down cannot be related to improvements. And we have heard dual seater being planned... Years ago... It is fact that budget issues and corrupt governance made even the JF17 project suffer. You can call it pride of Pakistan but you do know Zardari now and his past.

J10B is nice. But putting it above block52 must be based on facts. You have the AL31 engine issue. You have the added value issue. And you have the Indian issue of moving towards a much better plane then Block52... I do not see PAF investing heavily in another type.

 

[asif iqbal]

Again you have got this wrong, $800 million was paid in 2009 for 42 aircraft, So under this agreement all 42 are built its a done deal, where does this no money or government lack of funding effect the production

Why did production units varying from year to year? Simply to match retirement of current aircraft, which are the first aircraft to be retired in the PAF? The A5, where were they based, No 26 and No 16 Sqaudrons at Peshawar, they served for best part of 30 years, badly needed replaced hence the high production rate in 2010

F7PG is the youngest aircraft in PAF, Mirage just got a rose III upgrade 30 of them got South African refuelling pods and F16 will not retire, no urgent need there

PAF has in place 4 Midas tankers, 4 ZDK-03 and 50 CM-400AKG were delivered last year, none of these can be utilized with current PAF aircraft apart from JF-17 Thunder Block II, are you saying PAF established all this infrastructure to end up cancelling the Block II, eh i don't think so, and all of the above assets were ordered under the current government, so why buy in all that gear and cancel Block II?? That argument holds no water

Within 3-4 years 50 brand new aircraft have been delivered, by any standards that is a good achievement, give it time, let the project grow, have patience, the results will be fruitful

Mods feel free to move last few posts to JF-17 thread!

 

[Munir]

1. Again you have got this wrong, $800 million was paid in 2009 for 42 aircraft, So under this agreement all 42 are built its a done deal, where does this no money or government lack of funding effect the production

2. Why did production units varying from year to year? Simply to match retirement of current aircraft, which are the first aircraft to be retired in the PAF? The A5, where were they based, No 26 and No 16 Sqaudrons at Peshawar, they served for best part of 30 years, badly needed replaced hence the high production rate in 2010

3. F7PG is the youngest aircraft in PAF, Mirage just got a rose III upgrade 30 of them got South African refuelling pods and F16 will not retire, no urgent need there

4. PAF has in place 4 Midas tankers, 4 ZDK-03 and 50 CM-400AKG were delivered last year, none of these can be utilized with current PAF aircraft apart from JF-17 Thunder Block II, are you saying PAF established all this infrastructure to end up cancelling the Block II, eh i don't think so, and all of the above assets were ordered under the current government, so why buy in all that gear and cancel Block II?? That argument holds no water

5. Within 3-4 years 50 brand new aircraft have been delivered, by any standards that is a good achievement, give it time, let the project grow, have patience, the results will be fruitful

Mods feel free to move last few posts to JF-17 thread!

1. There was not paid... There was a soft loan. We did pay for development only to the developer.
2. There is a very detailed production plan. I do not think they just see where they will get. There was a learning curve. First already partly assembled, then full assembly in Kamra then parts produced in Pak etc...
3. F7 is crap. Mirages are outdated. Even with overhauling you still have very very very old machines with some new parts. A5 was obsolete before its introduction. F16 have strings are probably unreliable during wartime. I mean, serious. If Turkey had to beg for IFF codes... And pay big price to get only few...
4. I think you are not informed about what exactly is delivered. The tankers are just fully delivered and mainly used to get spare parts from China, France, Italy, Germany and some more places... Sometimes tested with the IFR for Mirages. ZDk03 is just two planes. And I do not think they are ready to do the full service yet. Can't tell more. Those ASM... I do not think so.

 

[asif iqbal]

Ok now you are just giving personal opinions so I will leave it there

 

[Hyperwarp]

From Hui Tong :

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Really nice looking HUD. Bit more evolved than the

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.

 

[Hyperwarp]

j10 @ CDF posted this video :

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Screen cap was taken from this. Some nice footage of a J-10B simulator.