J-10 Thread III (Closed to posting)

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Dizasta1

Dizasta1

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@non_name: The picture you were asking about is depicting (unconfirmed whether real or not), a J-10BS (DSI).

@Deino: So you're saying that the J-10B would be powered by AL-31FNs and not the WS-10As?

The J-10B in the picture is in full military paint-scheme, although I didn't see any serial numbers on the aircraft. Could this mean that the J-10Bs would not be powered by the WS-10As? If that is the case, then what could be the issue the Chinese are facing with the engine's development? One would've assumed that the pursuit to have Chinese engines power Chinese fighter-jets, was of prime importance to China. Then why is it that the WS-10As aren't powering J-10Bs, when they are the power-plant for the J-11Bs, J-16s and J-15s?
 
J

jobjed

Captain
Dizasta1 said:
Could this mean that the J-10Bs would not be powered by the WS-10As? If that is the case, then what could be the issue the Chinese are facing with the engine's development?
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WS-10A's have finished development, hence their mass equipping of Chinese Flankers. The question here is not whether the engine is fit for service, it's whether its production can keep up with air frame production. If CAC and SAC are making too many planes for WS-10A's production line to keep up with, then there is only one alternative; the AL-31.
 
T

Totoro

Major
VIP Professional
It doesn't have to be just production rate issues. It's perfectly plausible that, while ws10a engine in j11b (and tested on some j15/j16) was deemed acceptable for a twin engine plane, it is not deemed acceptable yet for active service in a single engine plane. It may be slightly longer spool time that's part of the reason. Or the fact that, to get to certain thrust level, engine compromises it's durability a little, thus also compromising it's reliability. I am not talking about big differences here, but even several percent of difference may be enough to deem the risk not worth it on a single engine plane. Twin engined j11s always have the luxury of that other engine.

Also, al31fn is somewhat more powerful than al31f. Perhaps adding those few more kn of thrust in analogue ws10a model put additional strain on the durability.

There is also the possibility that even the ws10a on j11b isn't performing that well, but that it is just barely within the acceptable margin. And it was a matter of pride (political decision from top, etc) to get domestic engines in service. And once those engines got into service, common reason prevailed and someone said "okay, you got your engines in service, just please don't ask us to use the j10 version yet, it is simply not ready"

Perhaps today some ws10a version IS quite ready for service. But last contracts for al31fn were signed year or two ago. One has to plan well in advance for such things. And ws10a and al31fn aren't the same engine. There may be little differences on the planes themselves. So the already produced j10a that aren't in service, and even the j10b in production were planned under diffferent circumstances. Perhaps one could modify them and switch the engine plans, but that would just add cost, while russian engines are already being delivered. So it was decided to do the most cost effective thing and wait for the next batch of planes and implement the small design changes to use ws10 family.

None of this is meant to belittle the achievment of ws10 family. I think it is really a succcess, several years here or there won't mean much in the great scheme of things. I am merely trying to verbalize possible reasons why ws10, indeed, hasn't served on single engine planes while it has, seeminly, been ready for twin engine planes for years now.
 
escobar

escobar

Brigadier
:confused:

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asif iqbal

asif iqbal

Lieutenant General
so how many prototypes have we got for J10B? like half a dozen!! but then that doesnt seem unfair but then its not a totally new aircraft either, we knows whats going on behind the scenes

i would have thought after so many years the J10B would be in full scale serial production, more imporatantly with WS10
 
Deino

Deino

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Registered Member
Lion said:
Yes, very!

Given at its speed rate of induction.J-10B will end up as tesbed only....

If I am PLAAF commander, I will not induct J-10B and straight to for more J-11B or J-16.
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I hope wwe won't enter again that discussion.

IMO it was - even if I'm too a bit disappointed - not surprising. 1038 - if confirmed - would be a pre-serial block aircraft and as such one which will most likely be assigned to the FTTC / a test regiment ... right the same procedure as with the J-10A and most likely with the - in Your eyes so much better - J-16, which is only available so far in prototype form too.

Like I once said, one can only be disappointed if expectations are missed ... and since we don't know the PLAAF's plans, schedulde and performance requirements, it's only possible to be personally disappointed.
Or do You speak as the PLAAF C-in-C ??

As such let's wait how many of these will be build, when will they be depolyed to a unit and when the first serials will roll off the production line.

Deino
 
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