J-10 Thread III (Closed to posting)

[antiterror13]

While Some Old J-10's For PLANAF

or sell them to Pakistan or Argentina

 

[Blitzo]

I don't think he's saying they're actuall old/used J-10s, but just J-10As.

Besides PLANAF needs to replace their J-7s and J-8s.

 

[airsuperiority]

I don't think he's saying they're actuall old/used J-10s, but just J-10As.

Besides PLANAF needs to replace their J-7s and J-8s.

The recent discussions of the numbers indicated that these fighters are now only 60% of the PLAAF population. I'm quite confident the numbers indicated that the growth of "what really cares" are on a stable increase, and PLAAF is in control completely. As J-10A, J-10B, J-20, J-11B, and the likes, and prospective new models enter the force(SAC's new product), the J-7,J-8 will eventually either be phased out, or be the first to get rid of/sacrifice in wars and exercises as either drones, UAVs, or whatever. Perhaps we might even see an increase in the overall total numbers of combat aircraft in the inventory, but by then comprised of 60-80% new stuff, and the remaining as old stuffs that are meant to be phased out or thrown out eventually. What/How do you guys think the PLAAF will do with the old stuff?

 

[airsuperiority]

Well I woudlnt' go that far to say "competence", but we can say that the PLAAF finally has comparable fighter aircraft either in service or advanced development compared to similar USAF aircraft.

In AEWC the PLAAF have the technology, they just need platforms to build on. The next big challenge after developing a stealth fighter is developing a large and medium aircraft/transport, not only for airlift but AEW&C/special mission and tankers...
Similar challenges will arise with larger bombers, but thankfully they don't have a massive need in this area.

Since we've been following these threads(thus progress of PLAAF, CAC, SAC) these few years, we're starting to get a grasp of their work ethics and how they do things. We've also seen how China is able to use the Flanker platform and moved very fast from then on, into making various new products of its own(J-11,J-15). This indicated an approach they use would be using a stable platform and enhancing +researching+developing it, quite like how they did it with J-7 and J-8, which they're also doing with J-10 now.
Other the other hand, while that the domestic industries are finally harvested their own crops of indigenous engines, and we also happen to see progress in the civies sector (C313 I think) with transports and airliners. These are all telling me we are seeing a lot more movements of various other independent yet related fields making progress in the same time, and by the time China shifted their focus into developing these aircraft, those areas would've matured a lot more, and will be ready for integration to the designing platform. Since we already have a Y-9 in development, and I believe Y-9 may be the future stable platform and response to what you've mentioned. What I think they need will also by then, naval variants, and a stable platform for the helo industry(Z-15?)I'd think those big challenges by then, won't even be big anymore.

 

[Blitzo]

Since we've been following these threads(thus progress of PLAAF, CAC, SAC) these few years, we're starting to get a grasp of their work ethics and how they do things. We've also seen how China is able to use the Flanker platform and moved very fast from then on, into making various new products of its own(J-11,J-15). This indicated an approach they use would be using a stable platform and enhancing +researching+developing it, quite like how they did it with J-7 and J-8, which they're also doing with J-10 now.
Other the other hand, while that the domestic industries are finally harvested their own crops of indigenous engines, and we also happen to see progress in the civies sector (C313 I think) with transports and airliners. These are all telling me we are seeing a lot more movements of various other independent yet related fields making progress in the same time, and by the time China shifted their focus into developing these aircraft, those areas would've matured a lot more, and will be ready for integration to the designing platform. Since we already have a Y-9 in development, and I believe Y-9 may be the future stable platform and response to what you've mentioned. What I think they need will also by then, naval variants, and a stable platform for the helo industry(Z-15?)I'd think those big challenges by then, won't even be big anymore.

Y-9, will be the medium transport if it gets into mass production -- but we've seen no evidence they can do that yet, and the same deal is with helicopters and the large transport is in a even less optimistic situation. Of course all projects encounter delays, and the chinese aerospace industry is looking bright.

But only the future of the fighter industry is looking assured and can go strength to strength. Transports, civilian, and choppers hvae a way to go yet.

The recent discussions of the numbers indicated that these fighters are now only 60% of the PLAAF population. I'm quite confident the numbers indicated that the growth of "what really cares" are on a stable increase, and PLAAF is in control completely. As J-10A, J-10B, J-20, J-11B, and the likes, and prospective new models enter the force(SAC's new product), the J-7,J-8 will eventually either be phased out, or be the first to get rid of/sacrifice in wars and exercises as either drones, UAVs, or whatever. Perhaps we might even see an increase in the overall total numbers of combat aircraft in the inventory, but by then comprised of 60-80% new stuff, and the remaining as old stuffs that are meant to be phased out or thrown out eventually. What/How do you guys think the PLAAF will do with the old stuff?

I have a feeling the PLAAF will want to expand in number, but their Q-5s, J-7s and J-8s can only last so long -- either uavs, target drones or simply scrapped. And while the PLAAF will require longer ranged aircraft (J-10s and J-11s, J-20, JH-7) they also need a modern "J-7" and "Q-5" -- like an attack version of L-15 -- cheap while not too capable to be unaffordable in big numbers. Even JF-17's a bit much.
Something that can act as a point defence fighter and having limited BVR and precision strike, without demanding lengthy supersonic performance or range.

 

[airsuperiority]

Y-9, will be the medium transport if it gets into mass production -- but we've seen no evidence they can do that yet, and the same deal is with helicopters and the large transport is in a even less optimistic situation. Of course all projects encounter delays, and the chinese aerospace industry is looking bright.

But only the future of the fighter industry is looking assured and can go strength to strength. Transports, civilian, and choppers hvae a way to go yet.



I have a feeling the PLAAF will want to expand in number, but their Q-5s, J-7s and J-8s can only last so long -- either uavs, target drones or simply scrapped. And while the PLAAF will require longer ranged aircraft (J-10s and J-11s, J-20, JH-7) they also need a modern "J-7" and "Q-5" -- like an attack version of L-15 -- cheap while not too capable to be unaffordable in big numbers. Even JF-17's a bit much.
Something that can act as a point defence fighter and having limited BVR and precision strike, without demanding lengthy supersonic performance or range.

I wonder if they can split the numbers of some of those to be evolved for basic flight trainings, while the rest to be served as decoys in times of war, UAVs, drones, etc. These drones will serve a very useful tactical value to mess up the opponents' plannings, detection, and even distract their attention.

I also do think they should produce a modern attack aircraft to replace Q-5

 

[Blitzo]

I wonder if they can split the numbers of some of those to be evolved for basic flight trainings, while the rest to be served as decoys in times of war, UAVs, drones, etc. These drones will serve a very useful tactical value to mess up the opponents' plannings, detection, and even distract their attention.

I also do think they should produce a modern attack aircraft to replace Q-5

If they want to screw with an enemy's operations by spamming decoys, drones could certainly prove an option -- but I'm not sure about cost. I think the miniature air launched decoy used by the US could be more appropriate; maintaining J-7s and J-6s, and fuelling them up even if its for suicide missions, might be more costly than a one use MALD

 

[airsuperiority]

If they want to screw with an enemy's operations by spamming decoys, drones could certainly prove an option -- but I'm not sure about cost. I think the miniature air launched decoy used by the US could be more appropriate; maintaining J-7s and J-6s, and fuelling them up even if its for suicide missions, might be more costly than a one use MALD

Not quite sure about the MALD, but the fact that J-7,J-8 were former in-service planes meant if PLAAF never disclosed when they are phased out, the hostile forces must assume that they are still in service, and forced to treat it just as serious. Another thing will be their radar signature; not sure if it's possible to use them to mimic other aircraft of similar or different signatures. All of these can do a lot of psychological factor in intimidation, distraction, and just about anything. Have a bunch of these flying with H-6, JH-7, and then either the real targets breaking up from formation just prior to weapons launch can be quite distracting. Even if they are useless aircraft, letting them fly into a CBG is going to provide a lot of nuisance.

Even if not for flying, they are just as effective as ground decoys if dressed up.This may sound farfetched, but even using them as decoys or to modify to single-launch ASM or cruise missiles may also be quite a headache. To make it worse, having a swarm of those with some genuine fighters like Su-27 or something flying within it may force the opposition to have to "inspect" the formation even if they were told to ignore these prior.

I'm just throwing ideas in the air, so maybe most, if not all of these, are wishful thinking or impractical, but yea these are just my thoughts of some possible usage with these aircraft. Nonetheless, China will still really do need to invest in something to replace the Q-5 and a competitive bomber? (Not sure if JH-7 is still competitive enough in modern combat to harass, if we're to raise the PLA standards to the J-10/J-11 tier)

 

[Blitzo]

^ Yeah that's definitely true, I'm just not sure if it's very economical to load fighter drones with expensive fuel just as decoys...

J-10s and flankers could fill the role of Q-5 and JH-7, it's not like Q-5 was exactly an A-10 either so the specs to fill aren't exactly stringent. I'm hoping the rumoured Q-6 can be mass produced and fitted with some PGMs and HJ-10s modified for fighter use.

 

[airsuperiority]

^ Yeah that's definitely true, I'm just not sure if it's very economical to load fighter drones with expensive fuel just as decoys...

J-10s and flankers could fill the role of Q-5 and JH-7, it's not like Q-5 was exactly an A-10 either so the specs to fill aren't exactly stringent. I'm hoping the rumoured Q-6 can be mass produced and fitted with some PGMs and HJ-10s modified for fighter use.

Let's hope they figure out how to replace aircraft fuel with overcooked stinky tofu oil for those drones(more psychological factor when ground zero smells terrible), or something much cheaper and more flammable (if they are meant to be disposed, it won't matter anymore if you put in the worst quality stuff, as long as it can get it to fly. even if they don't, they can go to the boneyard)

Never heard of the Q-6, but I look forward to hearing more about it. Hopefully we'll hear something related to it soon..