J-10 Thread III (Closed to posting)

[i.e.]

Regarding the intercept of the VNAF fighters I think PLAAF's electronic attack capability helped out a great deal. The USN supposedly crippled the communications network of the entire Nanjing military district during the 1996 Taiwan strait crisis with just a single Prowler. On the other hand it is my personal belief that the J-10s would've done well had China not employed electronic attack due to the superiority of the J-10As, when compared with the Su-30 MKKs, in air to air combat. There was an official leak, back in late 2010, concerning the "shoot-down" of 5 out of 6 Su-30s by J-10s during an exercise. The only Su-30 that escaped was piloted by one of the premier Su-30 pilots in PLAAF (surname Yang).

With good Jammer support I suspect even a J-8 or a JH-7 would have no trouble lock on a Su-30... they would just see their radar scope go snow white and RWR going off.

Hey wouldn't some JH-7A got converted to Jammers? any ways. no need for dog fights.

 

[siegecrossbow]

With good Jammer support I suspect even a J-8 or a JH-7 would have no trouble lock on a Su-30... they would just see their radar scope go snow white and RWR going off.

Hey wouldn't some JH-7A got converted to Jammers? any ways. no need for dog fights.

They already have electronic attack JH-7s. They are nicknamed "electric leopards" by Chinese military fans.

As for the argument about no dogfights... What are you going to do if you are fighting a force with electronic attack capabilities as well? The no dogfight theory was foolish back in the days of the F-4s and it is foolish now for many reasons.

 

[i.e.]

They already have electronic attack JH-7s. They are nicknamed "electric leopards" by Chinese military fans.

As for the argument about no dogfights... What are you going to do if you are fighting a force with electronic attack capabilities as well? The no dogfight theory was foolish back in the days of the F-4s and it is foolish now for many reasons.

I am not saying no need for dogfights in a general sense,
I am saying that in this particular case, where your jammers are blinding some hopelessly outmatched Su-30s. there is no need for a dogfight to send home the message. having RWR going off and all of your scopes go blind is serious enough.

IF this whole thing is true.

...
btw
I am aware of JH-7 Electronic Leopards.

what I meant to say , instead of "wouldn't" is "Didn't".

 

[MiG-29]

The fact that the J-10s locked on to the F-2s means zip about the plane's capabilities until we have further information on how the interception took place and what actions, if any, the F-2s took.

The Japanese have HMS and can cue their new air to air missiles even without getting at six o` clock of the J-10, same is the F-18E, the J-10 could potentially beat the F-2 only in a gun dogfight, but with HMS now the J-10 can be beaten even by the F-18E

 

[Blitzo]

The Japanese have HMS and can cue their new air to air missiles even without getting at six o` clock of the J-10, same is the F-18E, the J-10 could potentially beat the F-2 only in a gun dogfight, but with HMS now the J-10 can be beaten even by the F-18E

... Really dude. We say "we don't know the capabilities of the two aircraft" and you come and make these proclamations with such conviction... zzzz

Besides how do you know the J-10 doesn't have an HMS? -__-

 

[tphuang]

No
Nothing except rumors.

Then, let's not talk about it like it's a fact.

Well, something was going to give. We were either going to see J-10s with taihangs, or a new Al-31 order. I guess for now they still don't have enough confidence in the taihang to put it in a single engine fighter, or maybe the maintenance infrastructure is so entrenched it would increase long term costs (relative to 500 million) to introduce a new engine. It's also possible that they simply don't have enough production capacity to keep up with both J-10 and J-11 orders, especially since they've just ironed out production problems.

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Corroborating Chinese report?

And Bloomberg too:

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well, they will continue to buy AL-31FN for a while just because they are still ramping up production of WS-10A (not even sure if single engined variant of WS-10A is production ready yet). At the same time, they will have to replace AL-31FN on older J-10s with newer AL-31FN. So, it shouldn't be a surprise that they buy more AL-31FN.

Pupu originally leaked that one. He is generally trust worthy and if you can read Chinese I highly recommend his book series "Sun Set over the KNAPPO". It gives some pretty interesting insights on China's acquisition of the Su-27 as well as the development of the J-10 fighter and evolution of PLAAF's doctrine.

Regarding the intercept of the VNAF fighters I think PLAAF's electronic attack capability helped out a great deal. The USN supposedly crippled the communications network of the entire Nanjing military district during the 1996 Taiwan strait crisis with just a single Prowler. On the other hand it is my personal belief that the J-10s would've done well had China not employed electronic attack due to the superiority of the J-10As, when compared with the Su-30 MKKs, in air to air combat. There was an official leak, back in late 2010, concerning the "shoot-down" of 5 out of 6 Su-30s by J-10s during an exercise. The only Su-30 that escaped was piloted by one of the premier Su-30 pilots in PLAAF (surname Yang).

I agree that Pupu is a very authentic source. One of the few guys I truly acknowledge as knowing something substantial. However, let's not keep bringing up variants and projects that he mentioned until we actually see it. There has definitely been projects that he and others mentioned were in development that ended up been shelved due to other reasons. So, I'm hoping we don't devolve into a forum where everyone just worships the posts of the so called "big shrimps". Especially when it comes to aerospace projects.

 

[siegecrossbow]

Dude you completely misinterpreted what I said. What I tried to say was that you can't make judgements about the capabilities of the two fighters because we don't have enough information on the circumstances of the intercept.

 

[Blitzo]

Dude you completely misinterpreted what I said. What I tried to say was that you can't make judgements about the capabilities of the two fighters because we don't have enough information on the circumstances of the intercept.

Even if we did know the circumstances it would be a bit much to make general comparisons between two different aircraft. We could only say "under said circumstances aircraft B vs aricraft A would be...etc"

I agree that Pupu is a very authentic source. One of the few guys I truly acknowledge as knowing something substantial. However, let's not keep bringing up variants and projects that he mentioned until we actually see it. There has definitely been projects that he and others mentioned were in development that ended up been shelved due to other reasons. So, I'm hoping we don't devolve into a forum where everyone just worships the posts of the so called "big shrimps". Especially when it comes to aerospace projects.

+1

 

[siegecrossbow]

I agree that Pupu is a very authentic source. One of the few guys I truly acknowledge as knowing something substantial. However, let's not keep bringing up variants and projects that he mentioned until we actually see it. There has definitely been projects that he and others mentioned were in development that ended up been shelved due to other reasons. So, I'm hoping we don't devolve into a forum where everyone just worships the posts of the so called "big shrimps". Especially when it comes to aerospace projects.

I agree. We should analyse a big shrimp's leaks and they should provide hints for areas we should watch for instead of worshipping them as facts.

 

[MiG-29]

Dude you completely misinterpreted what I said. What I tried to say was that you can't make judgements about the capabilities of the two fighters because we don't have enough information on the circumstances of the intercept.

correct i did understand that. but even if the J-10 is more Agile, or has better rate of climb the F-2 has a really good radar and outstanding weapons, second all these intercepts are not real combat, simply, they are shows of force.