Israeli-Palestinian Conflict and other Related Conflicts in the Middle East (read the rules in the first post)

Rank Amateur

Junior Member
Registered Member
"Idk, maybe the Houthis [Americans] care more about scoring points against US/Israel and now Greek owned tankers [pouring trillions of dollars into overseas wars of aggression] than their own countrymen [society]."
That’s a good point. Do you think the Houthis are imitating the Americans? If America is allowed to do dumb shit. Why can’t we.

Even if both the Americans and Houthis have, in your words, done "dumb shit"[1] -- the Americans, by spending literally ton(ne)s of money to wreck the Middle East; the Houthis, by incurring significant costs to oppose Israel's genocide and ethnic cleansing of the Palestinians -- a fundamental difference is that the Americans have done so in order to do *evil*, while the Houthis have done so in order to do *good*.

[1] I actually disagree that what the Americans have done is "dumb shit," at least from the short/medium-term perspective of the ruling elites. The adversaries of the Chosen People have been devastated and destabilized; them Ay-rabs and Eye-ranians have learnt real good why 'Murika don't got no free healthcare; and, perhaps most important, US military contractors and other private interests have become filthy rich from the torrents of money that the central government is always willing to devote to the killing of foreigners abroad. What's not to like? Well, one thing not to like -- again, from the perspective of the US elites -- is that US meddling in/focus on the Middle East has given the PRC breathing room to develop, and now the "Heathen Chinee" pose a serious challenge to US hegemony. On the other hand, those same US military contractors and related sectors now get to drink from the monetary flow directed to countering the ChiCom threat. Still winning! As for free healthcare for the US public: :p Who cares :p?

* * * * *

And on a separate note:

"Even if the ship was somehow proven to be carrying oil to Israel, how stupid would you be to blow up an oil tanker knowing the obvious environmental risks."

Do you condemn the United States for having used Agent Orange in Vietnam, given the resulting harm to the environment and human beings?

Do you condemn the United States for having used depleted-uranium munitions in Iraq, given the resulting harm to the environment and human beings?

If not, then STFU.

In retrospect -- and catalyzed by a moderation notice, to be honest -- I admit that my above reply was intemperate. By directing profanity to another member ("If not, then STFU."), I unnecessarily coarsened the level of debate here. I now apologize to you, @Petrolicious88, and everyone else affected.
 

Petrolicious88

Senior Member
Registered Member
Even if both the Americans and Houthis have, in your words, done "dumb shit"[1] -- the Americans, by spending literally ton(ne)s of money to wreck the Middle East; the Houthis, by incurring significant costs to oppose Israel's genocide and ethnic cleansing of the Palestinians -- a fundamental difference is that the Americans have done so in order to do *evil*, while the Houthis have done so in order to do *good*.

[1] I actually disagree that what the Americans have done is "dumb shit," at least from the short/medium-term perspective of the ruling elites. The adversaries of the Chosen People have been devastated and destabilized; them Ay-rabs and Eye-ranians have learnt real good why 'Murika don't got no free healthcare; and, perhaps most important, US military contractors and other private interests have become filthy rich from the torrents of money that the central government is always willing to devote to the killing of foreigners abroad. What's not to like? Well, one thing not to like -- again, from the perspective of the US elites -- is that US meddling in/focus on the Middle East has given the PRC breathing room to develop, and now the "Heathen Chinee" pose a serious challenge to US hegemony. On the other hand, those same US military contractors and related sectors now get to drink from the monetary flow directed to countering the ChiCom threat. Still winning! As for free healthcare for the US public: :p Who cares :p?

* * * * *

A much better way to help the Palestinians is for them to take care of their own houses first. Hezbollah for example has been in power since the 2000s. What has it really done for the Lebanon or the Palestinians? It has the power to take over Lebanon, but deliberately chooses not to. Because becoming the sole government would force Hezbollah to have some real responsibilities. It instead likes the current political division/chaos, it thrives in it at the expense of the people, and operates with complete lack of transparency or accountability required of a state institution and without full responsibility to Lebanon. It talks of reform, anti-corruption, cleaning up of the state system, but never delivers because these measures would destroy themselves. As such, Hezbollah is actually a key contributing factor to the weakness of the Lebanese state.

Apply the above to Yemen, and you get the Houthis. They don't care about the Palestinians. How do you jump into foreign wars when you haven't taken care of your own people. Or is it just easier to exploit the Palestinian cause to gain legitimacy.
And on a separate note:

In retrospect -- and catalyzed by a moderation notice, to be honest -- I admit that my above reply was intemperate. By directing profanity to another member ("If not, then STFU."), I unnecessarily coarsened the level of debate here. I now apologize to you, @Petrolicious88, and everyone else affected.
Don't worry about it. I was never bothered by any of it.
 

CaribouTruth

New Member
Registered Member
A much better way to help the Palestinians is for them to take care of their own houses first. Hezbollah for example has been in power since the 2000s. What has it really done for the Lebanon or the Palestinians? It has the power to take over Lebanon, but deliberately chooses not to. Because becoming the sole government would force Hezbollah to have some real responsibilities. It instead likes the current political division/chaos, it thrives in it at the expense of the people, and operates with complete lack of transparency or accountability required of a state institution and without full responsibility to Lebanon. It talks of reform, anti-corruption, cleaning up of the state system, but never delivers because these measures would destroy themselves. As such, Hezbollah is actually a key contributing factor to the weakness of the Lebanese state.

Apply the above to Yemen, and you get the Houthis. They don't care about the Palestinians. How do you jump into foreign wars when you haven't taken care of your own people. Or is it just easier to exploit the Palestinian cause to gain legitimacy.
Palestinians are not in such a position of luxury to choose who comes to their defense, they do not have time to wait for Hezbollah and Houthis to increase their GDPs to 7% or higher before they provide aid.

Stones and Glass Houses. Most countries in the world are doing NOTHING against the occupation and genocide. Most people in the world don't have right to question Hezbollah and Houthis, what have they done for the Palestinians? What does "caring about Palestinians" amount to? Because for people of Lebanon and Yemen their solidarity amounts to death, yet they remain steadfast. It is admirable that Hezbollah and Houthis are acting in support of Palestinians despite their fragile economic, political, security positions, they're willing to be bombed and massacred in solidarity with Palestinians.

These flimsy accusations, rhetoric about morality cooked up by Zionists in the US state department painting those who are giving up everything in support for Palestinians as "perfidious, untrustworthy arabs", a ploy to muddy the waters by those who are sending bombs and munitions to kill and maim, this attempt at moral equivalence with child killing rapists should be viewed as what it is - support for genocide, support for the Anglo Zionist regime.

Genocide is the crime of all crimes. It is the responsibility of every nation and citizen to act against it in any and all capacity. Currently, Hezbollah and Houthis are the only ones doing anything about it, regardless of their intentions.

If others have qualms about their "effectiveness" they should lobby their own country to invade Israel or stop sending aid to Israel.
 

gelgoog

Lieutenant General
Registered Member
A much better way to help the Palestinians is for them to take care of their own houses first. Hezbollah for example has been in power since the 2000s. What has it really done for the Lebanon or the Palestinians? It has the power to take over Lebanon, but deliberately chooses not to. Because becoming the sole government would force Hezbollah to have some real responsibilities. It instead likes the current political division/chaos, it thrives in it at the expense of the people, and operates with complete lack of transparency or accountability required of a state institution and without full responsibility to Lebanon. It talks of reform, anti-corruption, cleaning up of the state system, but never delivers because these measures would destroy themselves. As such, Hezbollah is actually a key contributing factor to the weakness of the Lebanese state.
Lebanon's population is roughly split in three religious denominations. Roughly a third of the population is Sunni Muslim, another third is Shia Muslim, and another third are Christians. Hezbollah is mostly composed of Shia Muslims. So no, they cannot rule Lebanon that easily.
 

iBBz

Junior Member
Registered Member
Another video from the Yemenis detonating explosives on the Greek tanker, the same tanker from before. I'm not sure of the timeline of events. First video looked like it took place at night, but this one looks like its at daytime. Could be a camera angle or exposure thing, or not. The ship definitely looked like it had holes in it and light fires were active through these holes prior to the detonation.

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siegecrossbow

General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Another video from the Yemenis detonating explosives on the Greek tanker, the same tanker from before. I'm not sure of the timeline of events. First video looked like it took place at night, but this one looks like its at daytime. Could be a camera angle or exposure thing, or not. The ship definitely looked like it had holes in it and light fires were active through these holes prior to the detonation.

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Something straight out of Water World.

 

Petrolicious88

Senior Member
Registered Member
Palestinians are not in such a position of luxury to choose who comes to their defense, they do not have time to wait for Hezbollah and Houthis to increase their GDPs to 7% or higher before they provide aid.

Stones and Glass Houses. Most countries in the world are doing NOTHING against the occupation and genocide. Most people in the world don't have right to question Hezbollah and Houthis, what have they done for the Palestinians? What does "caring about Palestinians" amount to? Because for people of Lebanon and Yemen their solidarity amounts to death, yet they remain steadfast. It is admirable that Hezbollah and Houthis are acting in support of Palestinians despite their fragile economic, political, security positions, they're willing to be bombed and massacred in solidarity with Palestinians.

These flimsy accusations, rhetoric about morality cooked up by Zionists in the US state department painting those who are giving up everything in support for Palestinians as "perfidious, untrustworthy arabs", a ploy to muddy the waters by those who are sending bombs and munitions to kill and maim, this attempt at moral equivalence with child killing rapists should be viewed as what it is - support for genocide, support for the Anglo Zionist regime.

Genocide is the crime of all crimes. It is the responsibility of every nation and citizen to act against it in any and all capacity. Currently, Hezbollah and Houthis are the only ones doing anything about it, regardless of their intentions.

If others have qualms about their "effectiveness" they should lobby their own country to invade Israel or stop sending aid to Israel.
The Palestine situation will not change in the short to medium term. Long term solution will have to come from collective actions of Arab states.

Focus on self development, root out corruption, nepotism, education of their women, etc.... These are practical measures for nation building, not "rhetoric cooked up by Zionists in the State Department" as you say.

China has done more to help the Global South in the last 20 years than anybody else. Build up their economies so they can better resist foreign interference. It was able to do that because it helped itself first ********
 

_killuminati_

Senior Member
Registered Member
Build up their economies so they can better resist foreign interference. It was able to do that because it helped itself first ********
Who was bombing China when it was building up it's economy? Was USA building walled settlements with hostile armed settlers inside China? Was there a foreign wall dissecting China in half? Were Chinese ports blocked completely? Were borders totally occupied by enemy. No.

You see, the West Bank gave up resisting and followed your pacifist ill advice. What it got in return was all of the above. Hundreds of illegal Israeli settlements spread like a cancer within West Bank. Water restricted by rerouting the Jordan river into Israel, land grabs, whole swathes of Palestinian land annexed by a perpetually lengthening wall, dumping waste in Jordan river (WB water supply), full military occupation with targeted killing, bull dozing civilian homes and infrastructure daily. Unending HR abuse. Trade restricted. Borders run by Israel. How do you build an economy in this situation? How do you "focus on self development"? You don't. You cannot. Only choice is slow death or resistance.

European colonialists are notorious for this sleight of hand; they employed this in the colonies: don't resist, don't fight back, "develop yourself" while we exploit you. Whoever of the victims fell for this found the fruits of their labor looted by the colonialists. That was also a primary reason why Eurofascists vehemently restricted any form of Islamic jurisprudence from developing in any country, because Islamic ideology is extremely resistive in it's core. They called it "extremist", "Islamism".
 

enroger

Junior Member
Registered Member
Who was bombing China when it was building up it's economy? Was USA building walled settlements with hostile armed settlers inside China? Was there a foreign wall dissecting China in half? Were Chinese ports blocked completely? Were borders totally occupied by enemy. No.

You see, the West Bank gave up resisting and followed your pacifist ill advice. What it got in return was all of the above. Hundreds of illegal Israeli settlements spread like a cancer within West Bank. Water restricted by rerouting the Jordan river into Israel, land grabs, whole swathes of Palestinian land annexed by a perpetually lengthening wall, dumping waste in Jordan river (WB water supply), full military occupation with targeted killing, bull dozing civilian homes and infrastructure daily. Unending HR abuse. Trade restricted. Borders run by Israel. How do you build an economy in this situation? How do you "focus on self development"? You don't. You cannot. Only choice is slow death or resistance.

European colonialists are notorious for this sleight of hand; they employed this in the colonies: don't resist, don't fight back, "develop yourself" while we exploit you. Whoever of the victims fell for this found the fruits of their labor looted by the colonialists. That was also a primary reason why Eurofascists vehemently restricted any form of Islamic jurisprudence from developing in any country, because Islamic ideology is extremely resistive in it's core. They called it "extremist", "Islamism".

Exactly, the situation of Palestinians is not comparable to modern day China, it is comparable to China in the period between 1937 and 1945. You simply can't build economy when you're under genocide, saying stupid thing like "oh why don't those Palestinians develop their economy" is like Marie Antoinette saying "let them eat cake". Callous and disingenuous
 

iBBz

Junior Member
Registered Member
Exactly, the situation of Palestinians is not comparable to modern day China, it is comparable to China in the period between 1937 and 1945. You simply can't build economy when you're under genocide, saying stupid thing like "oh why don't those Palestinians develop their economy" is like Marie Antoinette saying "let them eat cake". Callous and disingenuous

The Palestinians have rebuilt most of their infrastructure at least three times. in the past few decades, there was always some academic lobbying in US Ivy league universities on behalf of Israel about how said building or said road is being used as a Hamas headquarters, or a Hamas weapons manufacturing facility. This always happens right before Israel bombs a hospital or a university or a mosque etc etc. This bombing of infrastructure is just being noticed now because of smart phones and social media, but it is absolutely not the first time this type of city levelling and targeting of infrastructure has taken place at the hands of the American and European colonizers of Palestine. The same thing has been happening to many countries in the Middle East such as Syria and Iraq, Lebanon etc. so this notion that Arabs have to rebuild and educate themselves, is just another method Imperialists use to dehumanize Arabs and make it look like they are all "Hamas". The same thing was done to the American tribes right before wiping them all out and framing them as "Savages".


It is so sad the Gazans were victims of Hamas. It is so sad the Cherokee did not want to make friends with us and attacked our "civilians".

The Palestine situation will not change in the short to medium term. Long term solution will have to come from collective actions of Arab states.

Focus on self development, root out corruption, nepotism, education of their women, etc.... These are practical measures for nation building, not "rhetoric cooked up by Zionists in the State Department" as you say.

Thank you for making my point. It is not the Israelis that are bombing Palestinians. It is in fact the uneducated women of the Arab world.
 
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