Israeli-Palestinian Conflict and other Related Conflicts in the Middle East (read the rules in the first post)

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taxiya

Brigadier
Registered Member
kwaigonegin said:
Late to the game but im actually surprised that IDF/Mossad etc. got caught with their pants down like that. With both highly capable HUMINT and SIGINT in place, something of this magnitude should not have happened.
This was a very large scale and highly sophisticated operation carried out by Hamas... not some lone wolf type with a bomb vest or a couple of folks seeking revenge.
Many someones in Israeli intelligence dropped the ball on this one. Also this proves HAMAS is far more sophisticated and capable that Israel had thought.
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Murphy's law, "something can go wrong will go wrong". No amount of sophistication can stop something inevitable, it may just delay it and probably in greater magnitude.

The kind of effort that you talk about are in Chinese "治标不治本"/eliminate the symptoms without touching the source. It is a common mistake by all regimes with superior materialistic power because they are convinced by thier advantage and sophistication. However, the root of the problem is always there, someone is pissed off, they will try here or there, now or whenever, sooner or later they will get their chance.
 
ZeEa5KPul

ZeEa5KPul

Colonel
Registered Member
The primary failure isn't of intelligence, it's a failure of imagination. It was simply inconceivable to Israel that Gazans could plan and execute an attack of this sophistication against them. When someone is that blinded by their arrogance and sense of superiority, it doesn't matter how much evidence you put in front of them, none of it will register.

Incidentally, it's the same arrogance and sense of superiority that makes losing a high-intensity war with China in the western Pacific inconceivable to America, and why we see "scenarios" like the million man swim to Taiwan and other ludicrous fantasies from people who are supposedly paid to know better.
 
eprash

eprash

Junior Member
Registered Member
taxiya said:
Murphy's law, "something can go wrong will go wrong". No amount of sophistication can stop something inevitable, it may just delay it and probably in greater magnitude.

The kind of effort that you talk about are in Chinese "治标不治本"/eliminate the symptoms without touching the source. It is a common mistake by all regimes with superior materialistic power because they are convinced by thier advantage and sophistication. However, the root of the problem is always there, someone is pissed off, they will try here or there, now or whenever, sooner or later they will get their chance.
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And China's approach to dealing with Muslim minority is now proven to be superior you need both stick and carrot and genuinely want harmony, Once Uyghurs were seen as a liability and now they are an asset that would in the future become a cultural bridge between Muslim Arab world and China bypassing Pakistan all together

Btw IDF hasn't fully mobilized yet what Hamas has so far achieved is very impressive but if Russian advancement during initial phase of Ukraine war is of any indication it's not how fast you can advance but how much you can sustain and keep your gain, Intersting decade for sure it's the fourth major war if I'm not mistaken
 
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Biscuits

Major
Registered Member
james smith esq said:
This, from the nation that some, here, suggest that China should seek more positive relations with. It seems that, when yours is a nation is born of Anglo-Saxon imperial prerogatives, you just can’t help but internalize, and then express, imperialist attitudes.

China gains nothing from ”positive relations” with this final bastion of British Imperialism, nothing!

Israel expected 'stronger condemnation' of Hamas from China, Beijing embassy official says​

Reuters
October 8, 20235:50 AM CDT

BEIJING, Oct 8 (Reuters) - Israel expected to see a "stronger condemnation" of Hamas from China, a country it views as its friend, Yuval Waks, a senior official at the Israeli embassy in Beijing, said on Sunday.



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Let's not forget the same exact type of violence raged in China's own homeland as well. Women and children murdered in cold blood by islamist, in broad daylight. But while China fought, the west not only refused to express support, but even aided the terrorists.

Right now, China's internal situation has armed rebellion in both East and West (admittedly, western part 99% suppressed). It is in no position to help Israel with their own armed rebellion, unless other countries can provide aid and security guarantees to China first.
 
O

Overbom

Brigadier
Registered Member
eprash said:
And China's approach to dealing with Muslim minority is now proven to be superior you need both stick and carrot and genuinely want harmony, Once Uyghurs were seen as a liability but now they are an asset that would in the future become a cultural bridge between Muslim Arab world and China bypassing Pakistan all together
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Thats because China treated the root cause not merely the symptom. That's what real democracy means.

Whereas all the racist West saw was that Muslims were all a bunch of (potential) terrorists, China digged in and looked for the deeper causes and solved them. De-radicalization is too simple of a word to describe the multi-dimensional approach that China used

Leave it to the West and their favourite child, Israel, to completely mess up because of their racist views and treatment of the Muslims
 
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Topazchen

Junior Member
Registered Member
ZeEa5KPul said:
The primary failure isn't of intelligence, it's a failure of imagination. It was simply inconceivable to Israel that Gazans could plan and execute an attack of this sophistication against them. When someone is that blinded by their arrogance and sense of superiority, it doesn't matter how much evidence you put in front of them, none of it will register.

Incidentally, it's the same arrogance and sense of superiority that makes losing a high-intensity war with China in the western Pacific inconceivable to America, and why we see "scenarios" like the million man swim to Taiwan and other ludicrous fantasies from people who are supposedly paid to know better.
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That arrogance and sense of superiority reminds me of some guys who were planning a counteroffensive
The adversary- being attacked with supposed superior weapons-was supposed to run and give up the fight.

Five months later, they have blame things like overgrown grass, minefields and fortifications for their lack of progress.
 
phrozenflame

phrozenflame

Junior Member
Registered Member
Overbom said:
1 day of hostilities and Israel has already called daddy to come to their rescue lol
https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1711060596332855650
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Israel's confidence has been really shaken to the core. They call US probably to deter Hezbollah. Until 2 days ago, if you asked most members here, we'd laugh even at the prospect of Hamas & Hezbollah able to phase Israel or inflict any sort of tactical victory.

Strategically, for Israel it's a decent move and tbh, it's not surprising, US politicians would go to any length to keep that political funds gravy train flowing.
 
james smith esq

james smith esq

Senior Member
Registered Member
Biscuits said:
Let's not forget the same exact type of violence raged in China's own homeland as well. Women and children murdered in cold blood by islamist, in broad daylight. But while China fought, the west not only refused to express support, but even aided the terrorists.

Right now, China's internal situation has armed rebellion in both East and West (admittedly, western part 99% suppressed). It is in no position to help Israel with their own armed rebellion, unless other countries can provide aid and security guarantees to China first.
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IIRC, China wasn’t established by British Imperial edict, and, therefore, “rebellions” against PRC lacked actual histories of Imperialist injustices as bases of grievance.
 
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