Israeli-Palestinian Conflict and other Related Conflicts in the Middle East (read the rules in the first post)

OTCDebunker

New Member
Registered Member
I know the point of screening but with all the congested rubble, I don't think it is a doable task in this scenario without incurring massive casualties. Palestinian fighters do hit and run. They don't stand around much for gun battles. With the amount of rubble laying around, the congestion, narrow crevices and tunnels everywhere, it is indeed an impossible task. Just as you mentioned, bombing the place made it impossible.


Even if somebody is going in and checking, it doesn't guarantee that the building won't be occupied again by resistance fighters. The buildings would require continuous occupation which is next to impossible. That's my guess of IDF logic. But I do agree, tanks alone are largely useless.


Maybe they will pull back from Gaza.

I don't believe the Israeli narrative that they went in to exterminate Hamas. I believe they wanted to destroy Gaza and permanently displace it's population, Nakba 2.0. Reports from couple weeks ago showed how IDF airstrikes alone had damaged more than 56,000 buildings in Gaza. That's twice as many buildings than the total membership of Hamas.


????
I'll try to explain a little better based on some conversations I had with USMC veterans of Fallujah (yes, that Battle of Fallujah) and also Mosul (when it was still during OIF/OEF) veterans from U.S. Army

1) Yes, you are correct in your conclusion that at this point in the war there is no possible way to avoid/prevent tremendously bloody and massive casualties even with the best dismounted infantry fighting force in the world. This is mostly due to the horrific amounts of indiscriminate ordinance use all over Gaza making it so that every piece of land is filled with a million different ways that someone can avoid detection against even high-tech methods such as IR/Thermal vision air support. Israel could not have given a better Christmas/Hanukah gift to Hamas if they tried. By doing what they did they (a) turned world opinion completely against them, (b) gave Hamas more cover, concealment, and camoflague then ever previously possible, (c) caused masdsive upheaval and civil unrest even inside of the political elites of the very same countries that are very blatantly controlled by Israel...Biden's internal team is openly and publicly revolting against him...France, Spain, etc. have their literal leaders now trying to distance themselves from Israel evena fter publicly declaring support, (d) ensured that Hamas will never have to worry about hitting recruiting goals unlike the U.S. and other western militaries, (e) finally dispelled the illusion of invincibility of the Israeli military to all of their Levantine neighbors whom only really settled for peace because they were under the previously false belief that Israel is a Goliath of some sort that the Levant cannot beat.

2) First, see below:


Timestamp is right around 2:10

But notice that the Marines are basically taking overwatch.

Keyword here is Overwatch (a word ruined by Blizzard game devs BTW). If Israel had been smart they should've followed a plan kind of sort of like this:

(a) Insert light infantry under cover of darkness during nighttime because you can afford Thermals/NODs for your guys but Hamas obviously cannot thus giving you a significant advantage >>> (b) Your light infantry must stealthily infiltrate trying to draw as little attention as possible, they are not supposed to be the killing force here there is a bigger plan than that >>> (c) Of course since your light infantry is totally (supposed to be) the elite fighting force that means they planned things out long ahead of time and knew exactly which building to pick as the 'base'...a building that's nice and tall, strong structure, and most importantly is actually out of the path of the later armored assets so that your air power is never forced into a position where they must do extreme danger close fire mission...*if I was Hamas and I realized that I am cornered with no way out then I will fight to the death and force you to call an airstrike that's not only right on top of your own tanks but also when your tanks are sitting in front of the building occupied by your light infantry scout platoon so that all of you go down with me* >>> (d) Once the attack commences the next morning have your mechanized or Stryker (don't know what's the equivalent in other militaries since Stryker Infantry is a US Army special deal sort of) infantry first dismount before they reach the area then split them up appropriately so that part of the infantry is ahead of the vehicles, part of them is hugging the vehicles, and the last part is protecting the rear of the vehicles >>> (e) sooner or later Hamas will engage the vehicle column...if Israeli infantry did their job properly then the first contact will be made by the guys way in front of the vehicles at which point the overwatch force will be directed to the action and can snipe or possibly call in an airstrike/artillery barrage...at the very least watch where those guys are running away to so that you can give chase...if Israeli infantry failed then Hamas will initiate a attack at the time of their choosing, however, regardless of who initiates first and who has the more favorable conditions at first contact the overwatch team has the same job. which is to call in air support/artillery and/or simply engage the target themselves if that's the better option >>> (f) once the vehicle column has passed now you bring in an occupying force...believe it or not but Military Police and/or Mortar Platoons are perfect for this role. Keep in mind that one of Military Police's responsibilities in the U.S. 82nd Airborne Div is to protect the roads that lead from base to a frontline so that the grunts can fight on the battlefield without having to worry about an enemy saboteur behind the lines. Mortar Platoons are similarly good for this job because the only thing both these guys really need to do is to sit inside of some buildings and make sure that there's no saboteurs behind the lines. >>> (g) wash, rinse, and repeat this formula basically always insert an infantry force as overwatch prior to armored assets coming in, then slowly move the armor and fight the enemy or scare them away, once the armor moves past a designated point then bring in troops less suited for intense-combat to sit inside the buildings that you passed by so that the enemy doesn't do that thing where they pretend to run away only to come back. >>> (h) eventually you have a 'cleared' city...hopefully.
 

taxiya

Brigadier
Registered Member
There are rumor it is actually Beidou guided not GPS for Iran. Anyone can verify this?
This is impossible to verify unless someone find the rackage with the chip. Even so it can only be determined that the chip is capable of using various GNSS system. Many newly produced navigation chips (for example Samsung Galazy phones) are compatible with Beidou, Glonass, Galileo and GPS, so the question is kind of meaningless since anyone can use any of them without needing any approval. If US turns down GPS accuracy, the chip will immediately realize it by comparing with other system and ignore what GPS says.
 
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OTCDebunker

New Member
Registered Member
***(Continued because I accidentally exceeded character count)***

3) In one of the Al-Qassam videos they showed their guys using a sledgehammer or some such tool to break open a gate, this is precisely why Israel should not have bombed the whole place. With the whole place bombed it's correct that it's virtually impossible to tell where the enemy is coming from since every hole, every half-downed wall, every rubble pile, etc. is where a shot can come from another thing that makes this even more difficult is that since everything is so destroyed you can't tell if this hole that's big enough for people to fit through was made by your own airstrikes or because 30 minutes ago some Hamas fighters made this new hole because it's the closest one to where a Hamas tunnel entrance is hidden at and now they can move around within the rubble without having to expose themselves too much to open skies or a road for that matter. If you can move in between partially destroyed buildings without ever having to expose yourself to open view of the sky or having to step outside of a building then you might as well be halfway invisible. If Israel had left the buildings alone and gone in like the USMC in Fallujah then they can be reasonably sure that when they see a series of holes in the walls big enough for people to fit through that this is where the enemy is moving through. More importantly, after enough time you can begin to see the patterns that the enemy is using. Humans are creatures of habit so even Hamas fighters will eventually start revealing their habits. Habits such as "hey look, everytime we find these holes it's always going through 3 buildings in one direction but on the 4th they are moving to the left building instead of going straight. that means if Hamas engages us again send people 3 buildings forward and then move to the left because that is where they are going to run too"...unfortunately for Israel they made this idea impossible since there's no possible way you can tell where the enemy is running to since everything is destroyed and a man can fit anywhere now.

4) Finally, there is some very specific that I noticed in one of the Al-Qassam videos. The one where they shot the unarmored Jeep that might as well have been a Warthog from the Halo game series. The video is actually 2 separate vantage points, but of the same attack. Meaning that there are 2 different Hamas units coordinating their attacks together. I belive it was that same video where Hamas sees a whole squad clumped up on the left side of a tank ...too bad Hamas was on the rear of the tank so they were completely exposed to Hamas RPGs. Predictably Hamas shot the clumped up group. These 2 incidents tell me that Hamas is using tactics similar to PVA tactices during the Korean War. In short, a reconnaisance/scout unit fires potshots at the enemy from a direction not even close at all to where your real fighting force is at. They shoot, they scoot, they shoot again but they always do it in a direction that's not where the real dnager is at. Pretty soon, the enemy just thinks "OK they must be coming from this direction. So we put our defenses facing this way and we take cover assuming that the enemy will engage us from this same direction" at this point HOmer Simpson comes and says:


Because your men realize they made a mistake when their enemy was actually coming from another direction all along. A direction you completely exposed yourself too and made no defenseive postures or setup because you totally got tricked by the enemy into thinking that they were coming from somewhere else.

Put all of this together and it's starting to look like the only for Israel to 'win' in Gaza is actually by eventually making Hamas run out of ammo...by paying with Israeli blood! Not a good trade. Or the U.S. gets involved...highly unlikely IMHO because the real truth is that both Republicans and democrats knows that whichever president starts a third Middle-Eastern war in 20 years will be ensuring that his party loses the Presidency and likely Congress for the foreseeable future. Especially, when you consider that it's the younger generations and the younger voters whom are both pro-palestine and whom are all coming into voting age by the truckload every second. The only way for Israel to get American deployment is to do something utterly unthinkable.

I hope fot the sake of the Palestinians and the Muslim/Arab world that they do not have to suffer another atrocity. The west has done quite a bit of crimes against humanity against them in the last 40 years.

For those same reasons I do not believe that America will involve itself in any war in the foreseeable future as an actual combatant, but that is going outside of the scope of this thread. Maybe I'll post something else in the Misc. or Taiwan strategy thread or something else, and also because my laptop is dying and I really need to go to the damn bathroom badly right now. Been sitting here typing this out too long.
 

plawolf

Lieutenant General
I am appalled and startled by the scale and bestial nature of what is carried out. Not since Nanjing Massacre have I seen something so horrendous, and this is the 21st century for heaven’s sake…

I think what Israel is doing is nothing approaching Nanjing level diabolically evil, but it is pretty much top tier inhuman barbarity only surpassed by the likes of Rwanda and Cambodia.

What we are seeing is state sponsored ethnic cleansing on an industrial scale, with much if not most of the most horrific abuses hidden due to the power cut to Gaza killing civilian means of documenting the atrocities and the Israeli states consistent bloody track record of deliberately targeting and murdering journalists not under their direct control and sponsorship.

Given the scale and systematic nature of the bombing campaign and enthusiastic ground forces bulldozer usage and trigger happiness (recently shot and killed 3 Israeli hostages), I fully expect the true civilian death toll to be may times the office count due to all the civilian dead buried under tonnes of rubble unaccounted for or labelled as Hamas fighters by Israel.

Sadly, I fear the worst is yet to come. As the Israelis suffer more setbacks and losses on the battlefield, it’s almost inevitable that they will start taking their anger and frustration out on civilians they encounter.
 

Overbom

Brigadier
Registered Member
I am appalled and startled by the scale and bestial nature of what is carried out. Not since Nanjing Massacre have I seen something so horrendous, and this is the 21st century for heaven’s sake…
Eerily resembling Nazi-theories. Ethnic cleansing on a massive industry scale. Whereas Nazis were purposely killing Jews in gas chambers, Israelis are now purposely killing Palestinians by massively destroying its critical civilian infrastructure.

Fortunately the world has since proclaimed "Never Again!" so at least we can be assured that gas chambers aren't coming back /s
 
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