Israeli-Palestinian Conflict and other Related Conflicts in the Middle East (read the rules in the first post)

5unrise

Junior Member
Registered Member
I wish I could do so easily but with some of the inhuman actions they have taken including the bombing of the hospital and there generally monstrous action against the Palestinian people and generally an extreme lack of any Israelis that actually condemn that actions taken, I apologies but unless the Israelis suffer anywhere near the torment they have inflicted on these people for decades with the help of the USA, I don’t believe I will be having any real sympathy for these ungodly people for a very long time. And this victimisation with Antisemitism makes then even more difficult of care about because really, they seem to apply this all the time when people have actual grievances, really it just makes them pathetic
I believe we should not automatically associate Jews with Israelis - one is a religious identity while the other is a ethnic and nationalist identity. There seems to be plenty of Jews in the former sense of the word that are horrified by what is happening in Palestine. As for the national identity, I can understand why Israelis would be more supportive on average of what their government is doing, despite knowing the history of everything. The fact is there has been much hatred and conflict over the last 70+ years of Arab-Israeli relations, and it is factually true that the Israeli state is actually quite vulnerable without Western support, although a large part of this is of their own making. That said, there is a clear difference between an Israeli person who chooses to say nothing, knowing that there are two sides to the story, and some Israelis who are so blinded by their rage and self-righteousness as to support this murderous path of their government. Everyone are from somewhere - the difference lies in whether they have self awareness.
 

james smith esq

Senior Member
Registered Member
If anything, it reveals the toxic state of western values and society; and you see this when an asian elderly person/Asian woman/Asian child is beaten up viciously by an african american, the response from westerners is 'he/she/they must have said the N word'.

China's rise is not supported by Israel because Chinese society doesn't give jewish people a free pass just because they were the victims of genocide last century.
China’s rise is not supported by Israel because Israel is a product of British Imperial policy and is, essentially, an extension of the white-supremacist British Empire. Do I really need to remind anyone of British Imperial policies towards China, even up to 1997 (and, actually, to the present)?

Unfortunately, through the machinations of particular interest groups, the U. S. was deceived, via WWs I and II, into becoming the enforcer of European, and particularly, British Imperialist policies. Hence, the staunchly irrational defense of Israel.

If one looks back to the post-war period, it was Eisenhower, then Kennedy, that tried, to some degree, and in vain, to resist this alignment, particularly with regard to Israel worship. To my understanding, the Suez Crisis was the last gasp of any chance for a U. S. foreign policy independent of European, and particularly, British Imperial control. The U. S. is not running the show; the City Of London is! Israel is the key to the British Empire’s last claim to some divine legitimacy, and the U. S. is the myrmidon tasked with guarding this holy relic!

So, if the Israel problem is to be solved, should we focus on the product, the protector, or the producer? Somehow, I’ve always known to pay full attention to that man behind the curtain!
 
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james smith esq

Senior Member
Registered Member
I believe we should not automatically associate Jews with Israelis - one is a religious identity while the other is a ethnic and nationalist identity. There seems to be plenty of Jews in the former sense of the word that are horrified by what is happening in Palestine. As for the national identity, I can understand why Israelis would be more supportive on average of what their government is doing, despite knowing the history of everything. The fact is there has been much hatred and conflict over the last 70+ years of Arab-Israeli relations, and it is factually true that the Israeli state is actually quite vulnerable without Western support, although a large part of this is of their own making. That said, there is a clear difference between an Israeli person who chooses to say nothing, knowing that there are two sides to the story, and some Israelis who are so blinded by their rage and self-righteousness as to support this murderous path of their government. Everyone are from somewhere - the difference lies in whether they have self awareness.
It’s only the radical, ethno-nationalist, Zionists that promote this fallacy and attempt to impose it, forcefully, on all Jews (and, in fact, all thought). Some Jews have the moral-integrity to resist, others, through either cowardice, or material expedience, acquiesce. Other nationalities and ethnicities, through either a lack of critical-thought, and or an ignorance of actual historical processes, simply accept the false association.
 
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no_name

Colonel
The more this continues the more it is starting to look like Israel may eventually become its own Palestine of the larger Middle East. Not that there would be an Arab alliance army knocking on it's doorstep (Though even that is hard to say), but even a simmering low but long term conflict will remind them a bit of what the Palestinians go through on a daily basis. Israeli economy and tech sector as well as living standards is going to suffer long term, and they will require continual propping by the US.

Bibi backed himself into a corner when he did a general mobilization. He can't disband them without some actions, he can't disband them and then risk Hezbollah or Hamas launching another mass action. But how long can they keep those conscripts in uniforms and off jobs?
 
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Overbom

Brigadier
Registered Member
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Anyone know what message Blinken is speaking about in relation to Iran? Talking about deterring Iran directly along with words about a third front sounds like the usage of military force against Iran. Last I heard, Mccaul was drafting legislation that allows Biden to attack Iran, Lebanon, and Iranian proxies.
Hezbollah needs to intervene for its own strategic needs. If it allows Gaza to fall under Israel without too much trouble, Israel will then turn all its attention against Hezbollah



He can't disband them without some actions, he can't disband them and then risk Hezbollah or Hamas launching another mass action. But how long can they keep those conscripts in uniforms and off jobs?
Bet you a dollar that Uncle Sam will pick up the bill
 

Stierlitz

Junior Member
Registered Member
❌❗️ — CNN: Senior Israeli official says there will be “no ceasefire” for Gaza amid hostage talks

— "A senior Israeli official tells CNN there will be “no ceasefire” in Gaza amid US and Qatari efforts to free more than 200 hostages held there by Hamas.

The official told CNN they were “not aware” of US calls for a delay to Israel's expected Gaza ground operation, and said both Israel and the US want all the hostages released “as quickly as possible.”

But, the official added, “humanitarian efforts cannot be allowed to impact the mission to dismantle Hamas.”"

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________________

❌ — Netanyahu's office: Israel will not send humanitarian aid to Gaza and will prevent its entry from other countries without oversight

 

tamsen_ikard

Junior Member
Registered Member
❌❗️ — CNN: Senior Israeli official says there will be “no ceasefire” for Gaza amid hostage talks

— "A senior Israeli official tells CNN there will be “no ceasefire” in Gaza amid US and Qatari efforts to free more than 200 hostages held there by Hamas.

The official told CNN they were “not aware” of US calls for a delay to Israel's expected Gaza ground operation, and said both Israel and the US want all the hostages released “as quickly as possible.”

But, the official added, “humanitarian efforts cannot be allowed to impact the mission to dismantle Hamas.”"

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❌ — Netanyahu's office: Israel will not send humanitarian aid to Gaza and will prevent its entry from other countries without oversight


I don't understand the logic behind these statements. Why would Hamas release those hostages, if that is only the leverage they have at this conflict. It seems the expectation in the west is that Hamas will release the hostages and then Israel will start its invasion to destroy Hamas for good. Why would Hamas agree to such a deal? Doesn't make any sense.
 

KYli

Brigadier
Hamas might not have anticipated it could breach Israeli defenses so easily and that Israel was so incompetent that Hamas was able to inflict such atrocity and casualties on Israel.

Consequently, the initial objective of taking hostages in order to dissuade Israel from full assaults would not have any effect. Israel has decided that those hostages can be spared. That's why you see Israel has indiscriminate bomb Gaza Strip with zero regards of collateral damage.

The second objective might have aimed at prisoners exchange. That's also unlikely to materialize.

At the moment, Hamas might use the release of hostages to delay any imminent attacks from Israel. At the same time, it would release hostages in order to alleviate Qatar pressure. As a host of Hamas political organization, Qatar needs to demonstrate its hosting of Hamas has some merits. Hamas as military force or political force is fighting for survival so any tactics to buy time is upmost important to it right now.
 

Biscuits

Major
Registered Member
Hamas might not have anticipated it could breach Israeli defenses so easily and that Israel was so incompetent that Hamas was able to inflict such atrocity and casualties on Israel.

Consequently, the initial objective of taking hostages in order to dissuade Israel from full assaults would not have any effect. Israel has decided that those hostages can be spared. That's why you see Israel has indiscriminate bomb Gaza Strip with zero regards of collateral damage.

The second objective might have aimed at prisoners exchange. That's also unlikely to materialize.

At the moment, Hamas might use the release of hostages to delay any imminent attacks from Israel. At the same time, it would release hostages in order to alleviate Qatar pressure. As a host of Hamas political organization, Qatar needs to demonstrate its hosting of Hamas has some merits. Hamas as military force or political force is fighting for survival so any tactics to buy time is upmost important to it right now.
Does Israel actually manage any major destructions of Hamas units though?
There's not much videos of Hamas hardware being hit.

They fire much less munitions than Russians are doing in Ukraine. Assuming the best Hamas fortifications are on par with those in Avdiika or Soledar, driving the civilians away didn't help in the goal of defeating the fighters.

I don't think they're that stressed. They're offering to trickle back 1-2 hostages at a time, which would be a way for them to get rid of the most inconvenient hostages.
 
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