Israeli-Palestinian Conflict and other Related Conflicts in the Middle East (read the rules in the first post)

D

Deleted member 24525

Guest
If you want to whitewash Zionist war crimes on the Palestinian people and somehow involve Chinese in it, this really isn’t the place.
It was not me who first made the comparison between the Chinese experience in WW2 and the Holocaust, if you read my post in full.

Nothing I said whitewashes Israel's actions in the past weeks. I was explaining the economic and political realities of the war. Seriously how is saying that Israelis believe that they are on their homeland apologia for war crimes? Their beliefs don't justify the deployment of white phosphorous or the probable bombing of a hospital, I am simply saying those beliefs exist and are very strong. Claims like this is what makes it damn near impossible to have a meaningful conversation about this topic
 

Biscuits

Major
Registered Member
Israel's land is arid and absent of fossil fuels. There is nothing economically meaningful to be "extracted", and this is corroborated in the data where you can see that the main sources of VA in Israel's economy are things like medicines, software, and agrotech for low-water environments. In other words, things not dependent on the local natural environment and that could in principle be done anywhere.
The presence of Israel as the American colony in the ME indirectly allows projection against all the resources of the whole ME. It is correct that Israel itself isn't rich in resources, and that their economy is based on the projects moved there by the colonizers themselves. If I had written a longer post, I'd have gone more into depth about this.

However, the fact that these projects don't depend on geography is what also makes it easy for other countries/organizations to jump ship. Israel's economy relies on "peace" being enforced against the natives. Nobody wants to do software development in a partisan filled land. Likewise, when the US garrison must fully focus on anti partisan duties, they cannot project threats against the rest of the ME.

That is the point I wanted to convey.
Israeli jews believe themselves to be in their homeland. They will not leave. It does not matter whether you agree with their sentiment, the fact is they will fight to the end to stay there with everything they have. Both of the claims you make here are essentially along the lines of "kick down the door and the whole structure will collapse", something that the states and groups opposing Israel have been propagating for since literally before 1947. What empirical evidence will it take to stop thinking like this?
You interpretate what I wrote wrongly. Barring some larger war, Israel isn't gonna collapse like a stack of cards. What will happen in the event of sufficient Islamic groups getting triggered and moving in is that Israel becomes a de facto US military governed shit hole with no worthwhile activity except anti partisan action, like Afghanistan was. Israelis born there will fight. So will Arabs born there. But all the expats and dual citizenship settlers will leave to greener pastures.

I believe Israel will endure at least for decades, but the pre war stability of the colony will never return.
You would be hard pressed to find a Jew who still genuinely believes in the "God's Chosen People" thing. It's basically become an in-joke at this point. Any remaining belief that Jews had in some divine being granting providence to them was permanently ended by the Germans. You should take to people of a culture before making claims about what they believe.
I don't think many Jews at all think this way, so in that regard you're fully correct. But ironically, many extreme nationalist Americans do, and they project their thinking onto the Jews, because lets face it, certain white Jews (like Netanyahu) have become wholly owned deputies of American nationalism.
 
Last edited:

FairAndUnbiased

Brigadier
Registered Member
This is a weird example to bring up because I think most people here would completely agree with it. Can you honestly tell me that if the PLARF and PLAAF made indiscriminate strikes on Japanese civilian infrastructure during a first strike, that you would think there would be an extensive moral outcry here? Would you even be personally upset? I want to be clear that I would not, since it would be disingenuous to imply that I would, but that is because of military realities not nationalist hatred.

Israel's land is arid and absent of fossil fuels. There is nothing economically meaningful to be "extracted", and this is corroborated in the data where you can see that the main sources of VA in Israel's economy are things like medicines, software, and agrotech for low-water environments. In other words, things not dependent on the local natural environment and that could in principle be done anywhere.

Israeli jews believe themselves to be in their homeland. They will not leave. It does not matter whether you agree with their sentiment, the fact is they will fight to the end to stay there with everything they have. Both of the claims you make here are essentially along the lines of "kick down the door and the whole structure will collapse", something that the states and groups opposing Israel have been propagating for since literally before 1947. What empirical evidence will it take to stop thinking like this?

You would be hard pressed to find a Jew who still genuinely believes in the "God's Chosen People" thing. It's basically become an in-joke at this point. Any remaining belief that Jews had in some divine being granting providence to them was permanently ended by the Germans. You should take to people of a culture before making claims about what they believe.
Anything beyond what is necessary to induce an enemy to end their aggression is not only immoral but wasteful. Revenge in general is not only wasteful but counterproductive.

Chinese did not get revenge against Japanese civilians after the IJA retreat, not during ROC, not during PRC. They lived in China voluntarily until Japan became appreciably more developed in the 1970's at which point they voluntarily moved home. Nobody made them stay, nobody made them leave.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

As for how to treat surrendering Japanese troops, Chiang’s victory speech made the following important points. “My fellow Chinese would know that not bearing grudges and being kind to others is a noble and valuable characteristic in the tradition of our people. We have always said that only militaristic Japanese warlords are our enemies; the people of Japan are not our enemies. Today, the enemy troops have been defeated by our allies, and we will of course strictly ensure that all terms of surrender are enforced. However, we do not want revenge, nor should we humiliate the innocent people of our enemy country. We can only commiserate with how they were manipulated and driven out by their Nazi warlords, so that they can extricate themselves from mistakes and transgressions. If we respond with violence to our enemies’ past violence, and respond with insults to their previous mistaken sense of superiority, that will lead to an unending feud, which is definitely not what our forefathers would want. This is what each one of us needs to be aware of today.”

There's a reason why Chinese could built continent spanning empires over and over again for 2000 years. We conquered when we had to. But no more. Chinese have nothing to prove with extreme brutality and bloodshed because we were historically winners, not victims. We don't have a long history of being persecuted (or of being the persecutors). All persecution of Chinese was extremely recent history, mostly invented.
 

Blitzo

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Registered Member
This is a weird example to bring up because I think most people here would completely agree with it. Can you honestly tell me that if the PLARF and PLAAF made indiscriminate strikes on Japanese civilian infrastructure during a first strike, that you would think there would be an extensive moral outcry here? Would you even be personally upset? I want to be clear that I would not, since it would be disingenuous to imply that I would, but that is because of military realities not nationalist hatred.

Speak for yourself.
 

H2O

Junior Member
Registered Member
Apologies if this already have been posted which I don't recall seeing. While the article's title is a bit over-the-top, I doubt WW3 would kick off to be honest. I've wondered if China's 44th anti-piracy task force would get redeployed to the Mediterranean Sea as the Gaza War started right when the 45th task force took over. I'm curious to know what the remaining three warships are being sent with the former 44th anti-piracy task force as such task force is comprised of only three ships.


Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!


China has deployed six warships to the Middle East as the conflict between Israel and Hamas escalates, according to reports.

The 44th naval escort task force - from the People's Liberation Army (PLA) Eastern Theatre - has been involved in routine operations in the region and spent several days in Oman last week.

The Chinese warships left Muscat for an unspecified location on Saturday after participating in an exercise with the Omani navy.

The task force includes the Zibo, a guided missile destroyer, the frigate Jingzhou, and the supply ship Qiandaohu - all of which will be stationed in the Middle East as Israel prepares for a ground invasion of Gaza.
 

Overbom

Brigadier
Registered Member
Just now there was the director of a hospital in Gaza who said to Al Jazeera that they had to do amputations without anesthesia due to lack of drugs.

Just an hour or so ago, the director of the Indonesian hospital in Gaza talking to Al Jazeera, he said that he received a call and messages from Israeli authorities to evacuate the hospital of patients and displaced people


Gaza right now
20231023_020834.jpg
20231023_020842.jpg
20231023_021004.jpg
 
Top