Israeli-Palestinian Conflict and other Related Conflicts in the Middle East (read the rules in the first post)

FairAndUnbiased

Brigadier
Registered Member
Pack a lot of people together and yes, a 40km range rocket can inflicts hundreds of casualties.

In a 20mx20m square space, up to 600 people can sit side by side in 20 rows of 30 people.
a hospital is not a 20x20 m square space packed with people neatly sitting side by side though. it has concrete reinforced walls.

such open air damage has been seen in WW2, where the KMT accidentally dropped bombs on a Shanghai shopping street - in an extraterritorial foreign enclave at that - when attempting to bomb the Imperial Japanese Navy. 2000 were killed.

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On August 14, the ROCAF bombed the Japanese Navy flagship
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.
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In what became known as "Black Saturday", bombs from ROCAF aircraft fell in the Shanghai International Settlement.
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While the Chinese pilots were instructed not to fly over the Shanghai International Settlement, the Japanese flagship was berthed right in front of it in what may amount to using the civilian enclave as a
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; 700-950 Chinese and foreign civilians were killed outright,
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with a total of 3,000 of civilian deaths and injuries resulting from the accidental release of the bombs, with most of the death occurring at the
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entertainment centre, where civilian refugees had gathered after fleeing from the fighting.
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The bombing was not an intended attack on the International Settlement: the four errant bombs were intended for the Japanese cruiser Izumo, which was moored nearby in the Whangpoo (Huangpu) river, adjacent to the Bund. Two exploded in
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and two in front of the
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Amusement Centre on
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, killing an estimated 2,000 shoppers and passers-by.
These were Hawk IIs with 500 lb bombs:
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1x 215 kg (474 lb) bomb on an under-fuselage
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or
A 40 km rocket has nowhere near 500 lbs worth of payload. HIMARS has 90 kg.
 

tankphobia

Senior Member
Registered Member
I think the most fundamental question is, where does the 500 casualty figure actually originate from and is it credible? That parking lot does not look like it would fit the amount of people, nor would they really be able to clear 500 bodies in such a small amount of time to just leave a bunch of burnt cars behind.
 

Minm

Junior Member
Registered Member
No, who bombed the hospital matters. We know Israel is capable and have bombed hospitals in the past. But if Hamas did it then they don’t deserve the support of the Palestinians and Arab world.
It matters, but the fact is that we'll most likely never know for sure. It's the same story as with Nordstream, if you are supporting one side, you'll believe that the other side did it. What really matters in history is what people believe happened. And of course it's not unlikely that Hamas is using Syrian white helmets PR tactics and overstating civilian casualties. But the important consequence of the hospital strike is that Israel is losing the war for international sympathy and every state backing Israel unquestioningly is losing international soft power.

And I know that how Israel responds will show that it is a democracy.
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What people are learning is that Israel is showing that a democracy in the western system responds by targeting hospitals and has no concern for civilian lives


I think the most fundamental question is, where does the 500 casualty figure actually originate from and is it credible? That parking lot does not look like it would fit the amount of people, nor would they really be able to clear 500 bodies in such a small amount of time to just leave a bunch of burnt cars behind.
They probably just made it up. But people seem to believe that it's real, which is what matters
 

Bellum_Romanum

Brigadier
Registered Member
It’s amazing the amount of people who suddenly became explosive battle damage assessment experts just when Israel needs to cast doubt on the blatantly obvious fact that they just murdered hundreds bombing a hospital.

The Israelis themselves admitted it before deleting the tweet. And we are suppose to believe a Hamas rocket managed to do a 180 and nail a target behind it almost immediately after cutting engines, and that said wonder rocket packs a punch exponentially greater than anything Hamas has managed to lob at Israel to date. Sure sure. Totally credible and objective.
My answer to the usual suspects here is the response from Bassem Yousse

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Proton

Junior Member
Registered Member
this is a sad event but i am actually laughing now at how much of a shatshow this has become.

the pictures show damages that are unlikely have been caused by a 500lb JDAM. of course smaller ordnance like SDB or airburst still not ruled out, but based on the picture, it cannot be ruled out that it was a rocket.

at the same time, israel has been acting suuuuuper guilty since the event had taken place. lets have a look:
1. their official online rep tweeted that they bombed a hospital, then promptly deleted it, i am guessing once they have agreed on a "story"
2. reports of IDF responding "well we told you to evacuate", again can be taken as admission of guilt
3. IDF changed their story so many times, at first it was a hamas rocket, then it was an intercepted rocket from PIJ and the debris landed on a pile of hamas ammo, now it was a rocket failure.
4. israel came out with this recording, which is so obviously fake...
why act this guilty if its not you? at a minimum, it seems like the PR team does not trust the IDF and is trying to win the PR battle on their own.

If it's Israel, then it could be a matter of misidentification.
A gathering of refugees at the parking lot could have been identified, through satellites or drones, as an assembly point for militants. And some kind of airburst may have been used to destroy the gathering, while largely avoiding damage to the hospital.

A misfired Palestinian rocket makes a lot of sense though.
It should be possible to roughly determine the blast yield from the available footage, which I suppose would give a very good indication of who the perpetrator is.
 
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Petrolicious88

Senior Member
Registered Member
It matters, but the fact is that we'll most likely never know for sure. It's the same story as with Nordstream, if you are supporting one side, you'll believe that the other side did it. What really matters in history is what people believe happened. And of course it's not unlikely that Hamas is using Syrian white helmets PR tactics and overstating civilian casualties.
Truth eventually comes out.
 
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