ISIS/ISIL conflict in Syria/Iraq (No OpEd, No Politics)

SampanViking

SampanViking

The Capitalist
Staff member
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Spot on Jeff (except I do not necessarily blame the Russian)

None of us can know anything for sure, but nobody is arguing "facts" but disputing a clearly subjective media propaganda campaign that is currently in full swing and wilfully ignoring other prime candidates for guilt.

One of the most irritating aspects of it, is that it is distracting from some truly astounding developments on the ground, not least of which is the Kurdish sweep along the Northern Border.
Yesterday saw rebel territory fall at an astounding rate and just as astounding is the SAA giving up Kurdish towns that they have liberated to the SDF. Almasdarnews is predicting that the SAA will give up the the town of Ahras; whihc it captured last night, as this too is a Kurdish town.

I also read that the Assault on Kinsabba itself in Latakia is now underway.
 
bruceb1959

bruceb1959

Junior Member
Registered Member
asif iqbal said:
Saudi typhoons have arrived in Incirlink air base

Good move by Saudis finally

They need to pull out of Yemen and start focusing on where the problem lies

I hope Saudi conducts strikes and by the deployment and equipment it seems very likely

Let's see what Russia will do, an attack on Saudi Arabia will force all muslims country's to declare a war on Russia so let's see how far Russia is going to go with this

Likewise any attack on Turkey is likely going to force Qatar and UAE into the fight

Turkey has also deployed 14 x F16 near the border more aircraft on CAP
Click to expand...


A belated and potentially inflammatory move on the part of the Saudis. Rules of engagement will be very complex and the risk of confrontation between Saudi and Syrian forces - either on the ground or in the air could escalate matters greatly
 
D

delft

Brigadier
Wounded fighters should be safe in hospital, even when they are Taliban. Quite clearly the hospitals attacked in Northern Syria were not military targets. As Syria and Russia have plenty of targets and few suitable guided missiles it is perverse to assume they would attacks hospitals when there is Turkey itching for an excuse to invade Syria.
 
bruceb1959

bruceb1959

Junior Member
Registered Member
Jeff Head said:
Guys this is a hard fought war zone...and everyone knows it.

While there are some who will blame whatever happens on the US....there are also some who are more than willing to do the same to the Russians.

I have no doubt that the Russians hit the hospital. But my thoughts regarding it are these.

It's war.

If an enemy takes over a town/city and then uses it to gather, plan, attack their enemy...they have to expect that town will get hit.

If they have soldiers who are being treated at a hospital...they have to expect that hospital could get hit.

If they are using a mosque, church, or school to plan, organize, or even house...they have to expect they will get hit.

War is hell.

While I would hope innocents would not be injured by either said...sadly, they are, because of the things I just mentioned above, and also because, no matter how precise we may want to say our weapons are...they are high explosives and people get hit and killed even when they are precises...and they are not always as precise as claimed.

The issue here is whether anyone intentionally targeted a hospital or school that they KNEW was not harboring enemy combatants. That's VERY tough to prove in a war zone like this.

Doctor's without borders or not.

That particular group is are known to help anyone...and I respect their willingness in that.

But they cannot also have it both ways and pretend that when they help combatants on either side that the other side is going to ignore it and allow them to churn out fighters.

Anyhow...I also believe that both sides are willing to point the finger at the other when things like this happens.

If I were the leader, I would make the statement I made above and tell people we will try our hardest to not hurt innocents...but when the enemy mingles with innocents, the hurt to the innocents is on them because we are going to take the war to the enemy.

That is probably why I could never be elected because people today simply do not want to hear that unvarnished truth.
Click to expand...

Jeff while I whole heartedly agree with the bulk of what you say, I have to take issue with your statement that seems to suggest ( and please forgive me if I have misinterpreted you) that a hospital becomes a valid target if combattants are being treated. A hospital is a hospital. An attack on one deliberately would contravene (I believe) the Geneva Conventions. If a hospital is an unfortunate piece of colateral damage then that is a very sad event, but all measures must be taken to prevent such an occurrence.
That said, I believe it is the responsibility of the aid agency/medical group in place to ensure that information regarding use of a facility as a medical centre is broadcast to all parties.
 
plawolf

plawolf

Lieutenant General
bruceb1959 said:
A belated and potentially inflammatory move on the part of the Saudis. Rules of engagement will be very complex and the risk of confrontation between Saudi and Syrian forces - either on the ground or in the air could escalate matters greatly
Click to expand...

Considering the Saudis seem hell bent on toppling Assad, if Saudi Arabia does send in ground troops expressly against the wishes of the Syrian government and with the aim of toppling said government, then that would be a clear invasion of Syria by Saudi Arabia, in which case rules of engagement between Saudi and Syrian government forces would pretty much be, shoot on sight.
 
P

PanAsian

Major
SampanViking said:
Hardly a conspiracy theory Jura as the Turks are already firing across the border . (It is a rather lazy accusation to be honest).

The key question is do the Turks have the armaments to launch such attacks from either ground or air from within there own territory, capable of hitting these targets?

Thanks btw for posting the map.
Click to expand...

20km is a short distance in terms of modern artillery range, Turkey most definitely have plenty of capability to hit these areas with their ground forces' artillery.

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P

PanAsian

Major
bruceb1959 said:
A belated and potentially inflammatory move on the part of the Saudis. Rules of engagement will be very complex and the risk of confrontation between Saudi and Syrian forces - either on the ground or in the air could escalate matters greatly
Click to expand...

It's the right move though if Saudi Arabia wants to conditionally escalate the conflict, which I believe it does.
 
plawolf

plawolf

Lieutenant General
PanAsian said:
20km is a short distance in terms of modern artillery range, Turkey most definitely have plenty of capability to hit these areas with their ground forces' artillery.

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Click to expand...

Lets not forget Turkey also has an air force that can drop bombs and fire missiles. Not all the bombs and missiles that falls from the skies comes from a Russian jet after all.

20KM is well inside the range of even unpowered glide bombs, although I don't know the Turkish air force well enough to know if they have those in their inventory?
 
Blackstone

Blackstone

Brigadier
Jeff Head said:
Guys this is a hard fought war zone...and everyone knows it.

While there are some who will blame whatever happens on the US....there are also some who are more than willing to do the same to the Russians.

I have no doubt that the Russians hit the hospital. But my thoughts regarding it are these.

It's war.

If an enemy takes over a town/city and then uses it to gather, plan, attack their enemy...they have to expect that town will get hit.

If they have soldiers who are being treated at a hospital...they have to expect that hospital could get hit.

If they are using a mosque, church, or school to plan, organize, or even house...they have to expect they will get hit.

War is hell.

While I would hope innocents would not be injured by either said...sadly, they are, because of the things I just mentioned above, and also because, no matter how precise we may want to say our weapons are...they are high explosives and people get hit and killed even when they are precises...and they are not always as precise as claimed.

The issue here is whether anyone intentionally targeted a hospital or school that they KNEW was not harboring enemy combatants. That's VERY tough to prove in a war zone like this.

Doctor's without borders or not.

That particular group is are known to help anyone...and I respect their willingness in that.

But they cannot also have it both ways and pretend that when they help combatants on either side that the other side is going to ignore it and allow them to churn out fighters.

Anyhow...I also believe that both sides are willing to point the finger at the other when things like this happens.

If I were the leader, I would make the statement I made above and tell people we will try our hardest to not hurt innocents...but when the enemy mingles with innocents, the hurt to the innocents is on them because we are going to take the war to the enemy.

That is probably why I could never be elected because people today simply do not want to hear that unvarnished truth.
Click to expand...
Well said, Jeff!
 
Blackstone

Blackstone

Brigadier
bruceb1959 said:
Jeff while I whole heartedly agree with the bulk of what you say, I have to take issue with your statement that seems to suggest ( and please forgive me if I have misinterpreted you) that a hospital becomes a valid target if combattants are being treated. A hospital is a hospital. An attack on one deliberately would contravene (I believe) the Geneva Conventions. If a hospital is an unfortunate piece of colateral damage then that is a very sad event, but all measures must be taken to prevent such an occurrence.
That said, I believe it is the responsibility of the aid agency/medical group in place to ensure that information regarding use of a facility as a medical centre is broadcast to all parties.
Click to expand...
If hospitals are used for military purposes other than treatment of injuries, then they're fair targets. What I mean is if enemies station soldiers and military hardware in those places, then it's bombs away. I'd do the same to churches, mosques, temples, and Moose Lodges too, because the strike decision on legitimate war targets is based on strategic and tactical needs, and not on if it's PC.
 
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