ISIS/ISIL conflict in Syria/Iraq (No OpEd, No Politics)

Janiz said:

Nice idea but that stunt would need Russian side working together in that matter with Turks and Turkmens there. I mean - they would have to know the exact route of Russian bombers with Russian bombers following it at exact time...

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No in the slightest.

Firstly, you would have to be taking the Turkish version of events over the Russians' to think there would be any need to know the exact route of the Russian planes.

If it was as the Russians claimed, that their planes never entered Turkish airspace, and the Turks attacked them across the boarder, then all Turkey would have to do is keep scrambling F16s until some Russian planes came close enough to the boarder to spring their trap.

Even if we do go with the Turkish version of events, since the area in question is disputed territory, the Russians probably regularly overfly it as they would consider it Syrian territory (or did you suddenly develop targeted amnesia and forget all the Turkish protests about alleged past Russian airspace violations? And notice how that number of claimed violations does not match the number of times Russia has apologised for airspace violations - that is indirect evidence that the Russians do not consider all the Turkish claims of airspace violations to be valid).

So again, all the Turks had to do is wait until the Russians crossed over that area again before springing their trap.

As for the exact time, well was there some special significance to the day of the shoot-down that meant it had to happen on that day, at that hour? If not, then it would simply be a case of the Turks having waited until the first opportunity arose to spring their ambush.

delft said:

IIRC it was the BBC which said this morning the trucks were transporting building materials. It burned very fiercely for building materials.

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Have you even seen it? And if didn't know - cars burn after accidents etc., they don't have to be full of ammunition... But it seems like you're an expert and you have seen it (at least video but from self confidence in your post I bet it was first hand information, right?).

Janiz said:

Have you even seen it? And if didn't know - cars burn after accidents etc., they don't have to be full of ammunition... But it seems like you're an expert and you have seen it (at least video but from self confidence in your post I bet it was first hand information, right?).

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I saw a video. I also read in my Dutch newspaper NRC on page 3 today that the number of trucks was said to be 20 and according to first messages it concerned a convoy by the Turkish humanitarian organization IHH. The paper adds however that Turkish opposition politicians accuse the Turkish secret service of using such convoys to provide support to radical Islamist organizations like Jabhat al Nusra.

janjak desalin said:

Well, as everyone else is saying it, now,I'll repeat the gist of my, removed, post from early yesterday.

This was neither an independent nor an unplanned incident, nor is it an isolated incident within 'western' strategy; this is only the beginning of provocations intended to distract Russian focus and impede the (inevitable) success of Russia's intervention into the Syrian civil War. They have intended to derail it from the start and they continue to do so. Don't be surprised if it culminates in an assassination attempt on President Assad, of course by some 'independent', patriotic Syrian party.

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I'm not sure about the "western strategy" part.

I think even a casual observer could see that there are major differences and divisions within NATO, with the Turks very much the outlier.

The overwhelming majority in NATO are pretty much furious with Turkey, both for its tolerance if not outright support of terrorists, and for its extreme overreaction, if not outright premeditated ambush of the Russian striker.

Jura said:

Moderators have a look what this Thread is becoming ... Is there a reason to refer this way to killing people??

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Guys, if you feel the need to report a post because it does not agree with your world view or is indeed trolling, can you simply do so and not clog up the thread by advertising it. Alternatively and better yet, why not post a thoughtful counterpoint?

Cheers

X-Post from Russian Military thread:

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© Sputnik/ Dmitry Vinogradov

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18:54 26.11.2015(updated 21:23 26.11.2015)
An advanced S-400 Triumf air defense system on Thursday was delivered and deployed on combat duty at the Hmeymim airbase near the Syrian port city of Latakia, the Russian Defense Ministry said.

MOSCOW (Sputnik) — Earlier in the day, a RIA Novosti correspondent reported that Russia has delivered its S-400 missile defense system to its air base near Syria's Latakia.


"Today, in accordance with a decision by the Supreme Commander of the Russian Armed Forces, an S-400 air defense system was promptly delivered and deployed on combat duty at the Hmeymim air base in Syria," ministry's spokesman Maj. Gen. Igor Konashenkov said.

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On Wednesday, Russian President Vladimir Putin approved the Defense Ministry’s request to deploy the S-400 Triumf (SA-21 Growler) at the airbase in order to protect Russia’s Aerospace Forces operating in Syria.


The decision was made after Turkish fighter jets had shot down a Russian Su-24 bomber, which had been taking part in Russia's anti-terror campaign in Syria.

Russian President Vladimir Putin described the incident as a "stab in the back, carried out against us by accomplices of terrorists."

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Tyloe said:

If has turned out the Turkish military had no idea the Su-24 was Russian.

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But this is likely half the story.
There is a real chance that Turkey might have mistaken the Russian aircraft as a Syrian one. Before this, Turkey had shot numerous aircraft belonging to the Syrian Air force in the past with not escort policy. And to add to misidentification, Both Russia and Syria operates Su-24s.

Also with Turkish accounts, that the Russian pilots didn't respond means they possibly communicated through channels meant for to contact Syrian planes, and not Russian.

If your military has the mentality to shoot down every plane, in this case Turkey destroying every Syrian aircraft they interpreted as air intrusion in the last years, and never adopted a policy to ecsort them. What would the outcome be?

I doubt Turkey will ever intentionally shoot down a Russian plane if they knew it was Russian beforehand.

NOTE: This is not damage control for Turkey.

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It was Turkey who anounced that it shot down a Russian warplane BEFORE Russia confirmed.
Now Turkey is just back-stepping, swallowing its own words. It is an attempt de-escalation, not a good one, but maybe acceptable to the Russians if Russia does not want to go further.

delft said:

IIRC it was the BBC which said this morning the trucks were transporting building materials. It burned very fiercely for building materials.

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hehe, cement, sand and steel apparently are dangerous flamable.