Is it better to walk on by?

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solarz

Brigadier
Back when I was a kid in China, the teachers drilled party propaganda into us on a daily basis, we are supposed to "protect the young, respect the elderly", "uphold the spirit of Lei Feng, serve the people", etc. We even had a morality and ethics class, had to write papers every term about the good deeds we did, get people to send letters of appreciation for our volunteer work to school.

However, after speaking with other people who also came from China, this was apparently not the case for all provinces, especially the south where this incident happened. Lately the party propaganda has became less effective, people gained resistance after they got a taste of capitalism, they realized it's a dog eat dog world.

Yes, I remember those times. However, I don't think the current situation is due to propaganda being less effective. That would imply the Chinese people are naturally heartless unless "brainwashed" by propaganda into being more caring.

No, the problem is the lack of an effective rule of law in China. It is beyond ludicrous that a judge can say that the young man must have caused the old lady's injury because otherwise he would not have helped her.

Citizens feel that they need to be protected by a camera before they can feel safe enough to help others shows that the reluctance to help stems mainly from a lack of protection from the laws.
 

Mr T

Senior Member
So you have so many people too scared to help people now, making the world news think that the onlookers purposely don't help cause they don't want to. It's not the case. They want to help, but are scared it's a money making fraud.

If you can get a very small child to lie in the road motionless for any length of time, you've either an incredible parent or very lucky to have such an obedient sprog. Most kids would get bored after a short while and start moving around.

Plus I would be surprised if, having been run over twice, there were no apparent signs of injury. I was near a road accident once where a woman got run over. I didn't see her body because there was a vehicle in the way, but there was still a crap load of blood everywhere. (If you want to know what I did, I dialed 999 - as did about a half dozen other people). Which of course begs the question, why didn't any of the passers by call for the police or an ambulance to investigate? Does China have some punative penalty for calling out the emergency services when they're not required, even if you're acting in good faith?

My mates Chinese mates parents (had dinner with them) said that Chinese people weren't like this before the invasion of foreign nations, they said their old morals and attitude have been lost in this modernization.

Given that I doubt his/her parents weren't alive in the 19th century, I have a feeling that may be a case of rose-tinted glasses. There are always plenty of people wherever you go saying that morality was better in their country x years ago.

But if you really want to point the finger at someone or some thing, I'd say the CCP's systematic attacks on traditional Chinese culture and religion under Mao was probably far more effective in messing people's morals up (assuming they are messed up).

That would imply the Chinese people are naturally heartless unless "brainwashed" by propaganda into being more caring.

As you say, State "brainwashing" isn't the answer. Society as a whole needs to encourage more selfless acts. But certainly government can assist by changing the law to protect people who help out.

No, the problem is the lack of an effective rule of law in China. It is beyond ludicrous that a judge can say that the young man must have caused the old lady's injury because otherwise he would not have helped her.

I guess you're saying that this isn't rule of law because the judge is deciding what to do based on a weird personal view of how normal people would react rather than the law? That's interesting. Judges acting no differently from Imperial era officials or the Red Guards during the Cultural Revolution, people with too much power and no effective oversight.
 

solarz

Brigadier
But if you really want to point the finger at someone or some thing, I'd say the CCP's systematic attacks on traditional Chinese culture and religion under Mao was probably far more effective in messing people's morals up (assuming they are messed up).

If you'd noticed the articles, the Chinese are lamenting their current lack of morality, as compared to the 50's to the 80's, when CCP indoctrination had a far more permeating presence.

Plus I would be surprised if, having been run over twice, there were no apparent signs of injury. I was near a road accident once where a woman got run over. I didn't see her body because there was a vehicle in the way, but there was still a crap load of blood everywhere. (If you want to know what I did, I dialed 999 - as did about a half dozen other people). Which of course begs the question, why didn't any of the passers by call for the police or an ambulance to investigate? Does China have some punative penalty for calling out the emergency services when they're not required, even if you're acting in good faith?

Ever heard of
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and the
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?

Even recently, a homeless man in New York who saved a woman from an attacker and got stabbed as a result,
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xywdx

Junior Member
Here's something new to look at "北大校长撑腰体".
Apparently the principal of Beijing University came out and said if any of their students gets in trouble the University will provide free legal services and pay the fines should they lose the case.
This promise is being echoed by many other educational instituions across China, what are your thoughts?
 

Mr T

Senior Member
If you'd noticed the articles, the Chinese are lamenting their current lack of morality, as compared to the 50's to the 80's, when CCP indoctrination had a far more permeating presence.

I'm not surprised. Chinese education policy is still reluctant to fully discuss the damage the CCP did to China in the past. It's not the whitewash it used to be, but its enough that such people ignore what the Red Guards did and how those that didn't conform or were "different" were treated.

As I said, if you want to look at who did what to Chinese culture, the CCP made far more sustained and effective attacks on traditional ways and attitudes. Some of those policies had positive results, others were destructive.

Ever heard of Kitty Genovese and the Bystander effect

What does that have to do with my showing that the "I thought I might get scammed if I stopped to help" defence is bogus?

Apparently the principal of Beijing University came out and said if any of their students gets in trouble the University will provide free legal services and pay the fines should they lose the case. This promise is being echoed by many other educational instituions across China, what are your thoughts?

A nice idea, but I really hope any promises like that are followed through!
 
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Engineer

Major
Sure, because Chinese education policy doesn't exactly trump up the damage the CCP's policies did to Chinese culture.
Back then, there are laws against hooliganism, but people use this to bash China for human rights abuse as well. :rolleyes:

It is interesting to see how China-hating warriors all over the Internet criticize the whole of China having no morality and taking cheap shots at CCP while simultaneously exploit the child's death in China bashing frenzy.

What does that have to do with my showing that the "I thought I might get scammed if I stopped to help" defence is bogus?
Where is the proof that shows "I thought I might get scammed if I stopped to help" is bogus? Plus these incidents have everything to do with the little girl getting ran over and left to die, as these incidents show bystander effect at work and is not unique in China.
 

AssassinsMace

Lieutenant General
Interesting how Mainland Chinese tourists travelling overseas is a pretty recent event. But the stereotypes of bad behaving Chinese tourists have been around much longer. Why? Because those were the Non-Mainland tourists that started them all and now all you see is them blaming the Mainland. I believe I mentioned this before about my American friend who was heading to Thailand for a vacation with his family. They hand a stop-over in Taipei. His mother-in-law who was elderly and handicapped came with them. So while they're waiting at the airport his wife took her mother to the restroom which was empty. Right when she was about to step into the stall, a Taiwanese woman came in and dashed into the stall and slammed the door in their faces. I know they can blame that on a Mainland Chinese but it was only recently that a Mainland Chinese wasn't allowed to be alone and only in a group in Taiwan. And they wouldn't know how to use a restroom if it didn't have a hole in the ground. So guess who's the only people left?


And that type of mentality would be a good samaritan?
 

cn_habs

Junior Member
I won't bet on that. So many news that when good samaritan helped someone who fell over or whatever the case was sued, being asked for compensation. Multiple witness said the samaritan pushed them over or whatever. But those witness later were found to be the victims friends and relatives. Every since the economic boom in China, people are getting worse and worse in moral values. They will do anything for money.

So you have so many people too scared to help people now, making the world news think that the onlookers purposely don't help cause they don't want to. It's not the case. They want to help, but are scared it's a money making fraud. My mates Chinese mates parents (had dinner with them) said that Chinese people weren't like this before the invasion of foreign nations, they said their old morals and attitude have been lost in this modernization.

I still believe that these terribly sad events would tend to happen less often in the North where people who are relatively poorer or less corrupt by money. The fact that there are too many non-native residents in the South doesn't help and make people less likely to care.
 

SteelBird

Colonel
OK, The girl left the world on Friday morning, everybody knows that? My suggestion is let the poor girl rests in peace.
 

Mr T

Senior Member
It is interesting to see how China-hating warriors all over the Internet criticize the whole of China having no morality and taking cheap shots at CCP while simultaneously exploit the child's death in China bashing frenzy.

The worst criticism of what happened is coming from Chinese netizens. This is a bigger story in China than elsewhere.

Where is the proof that shows "I thought I might get scammed if I stopped to help" is bogus?

http://www.sinodefenceforum.com/members-club-room/better-walk-3-5715.html#post165015

If you can get a very small child to lie in the road motionless for any length of time, you've either an incredible parent or very lucky to have such an obedient sprog. Most kids would get bored after a short while and start moving around.

Plus I would be surprised if, having been run over twice, there were no apparent signs of injury. I was near a road accident once where a woman got run over. I didn't see her body because there was a vehicle in the way, but there was still a crap load of blood everywhere. (If you want to know what I did, I dialed 999 - as did about a half dozen other people). Which of course begs the question, why didn't any of the passers by call for the police or an ambulance to investigate? Does China have some punative penalty for calling out the emergency services when they're not required, even if you're acting in good faith?


I can't give you a health and safety report compiled by the International Committee of Truth on All Matters, but if you've been involved in or witnessed a severe accident where on first inspection you had no way of telling if it was real of not, feel free to share your experiences.

And if you still refuse to accept I might have a point, feel free to explain why a fear of being scammed stops you calling the emergency services.

I still believe that these terribly sad events would tend to happen less often in the North where people who are relatively poorer or less corrupt by money. The fact that there are too many non-native residents in the South doesn't help and make people less likely to care.

I wouldn't be too hard on people living in southern China. It's a diverse region, and it's not like this girl was hit outside an expensive store or in suburbia.
 
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