Is China planning a Military Strike beyond its borders?

bladerunner

Banned Idiot
If China WAS to do anything , then I think Finn McCool's post No18 is the right way to go about it.

Why can't they use the diplomatic bag to smuggle in weapons to the country of destination?.
 

SampanViking

The Capitalist
Staff member
Super Moderator
VIP Professional
Registered Member
Well, I have read the thread and while there is no denying that the approaches suggested are logical and practical, I think they miss the kernel of this situation and what it is that makes this so very different from previous episodes of disorder.

The covert options are all valid, but these are things that other Governments would probably expect and subjects which can be discussed with China behind closed doors. The key fact here is that the Ambassador made very public comments and in that respect is suggesting that behind closed doors has had little effect or that Beijing feels that a direct approach to the citizenry of Europe and possibly beyond is required. If so, then this is primarily a matter of perception and if perception is a primary issue then it means the stakes are extremely high.

To go further does require a brief traipse through dangerous territory, but if it is done tastefully and as it is essential to the plot, I think it must be;). I would make clear though, that this is simply describing positions, which are well known and understood and that no comments on right or wrong either way are necessary or expected in any subsequent responses.

There is a perception throughout Western Governments and media, that the CCP is on the "wrong side of history" through its failure to recognise and adopt Western standards of Political System and Policy etc. As a result, they feel free to offer support to those that actively oppose the rule of the CCP and are prepared to countenance any resulting disorder that support of this opposition may Generate. Further, that because the CCP is morally wrong and the opposition is morally right, that China has no option but to accept the outbreaks of disorder and that if they continue to survive in power, must simply accept the situation and clear up the mess until next time.

The CCP however; not surprisingly, does not share this view and while in the past it may well have had no option but to "weather the storm", "clear up" and "prepare for the next one", this situation is no longer acceptable to it, especially as it has had to cope with two major incidents in as many years. There is now, it seems, little appetite to simply accept this as fate and to meekly await the next outbreak. China is now in a position where it feels able to shape global perceptions in its own image and the Ambassadors statement reads as a forewarning of this.

So, assuming that this is the judgement of the senior CCP Committee members, what are the perceptions that China feels it needs to change?

1) Domestic. The CCP is keenly aware that public opinion at home is angry with what it perceives as weakness in the face of the foreign backed forces, which cannot be ignored or denied as the CCP is the key driver of the foreign backed forces arguement

2) International, it needs to demonstrate publicly and forcefully that China is nobody's punch bag and that supporting the enemies of the Government abroad is not a low risk activity.

3) Policy, the CCP needs to not only to deliver an unequivocal statement that addresses the concerns of 1 and 2, but one which also substantiates and justifies the claims of foreign interference which they have made.

This then is the point where the Ambassadors Statement is delivered. It criticises the Governments of Europe for showing preference to the Minority Opposition groups rather than of the Chinese Government (a rebuke which is extended to the civil groups supporting the Opposition within Europe) It puts everyone on notice that many of the Uighur organisations which it blames for the unrest are about to be labelled Terrorist Organisations and that it will expect Europe to recognise this re-categorisation. In short we have a form of "You are either with us or against us" with Chinese Characteristics.

My expectation, is that either at the time this demand is formally made, or shortly afterwards as response to poor European and possible US Enthusiasm to the demand, that China will undertake a "spectacular" of its own and that this will be in form of a major security operation across its Western Border in Eastern Afghanistan. This Operation will be intense, involve huge numbers of Chinese Ground Forces and Aircraft and result in the "capture" of some leading Uighur separatists and possible even embarrassing documentation regarding links to overseas Intelligence Agencies.

In many ways, this operation will be similar to the Russian operation in Georgia last year, in that it will be short, sharp and then followed by a leisurely withdrawal. The result though will have been to have put on a good show, looked tough at home and abroad and delivered the "evidence" necessary to ensure that continued Overseas support for Chinese Minority Opposition groups is made increasingly difficult (especially if the covert activities suggested by other posters are deemed justifiable to bring into play).

While the above is somewhat wordy, I hope it illustrates the significance of the Ambassadors Statement and the probable path of events it so very strongly alludes too.
 
This Operation will be intense, involve huge numbers of Chinese Ground Forces and Aircraft and result in the "capture" of some leading Uighur separatists and possible even embarrassing documentation regarding links to overseas Intelligence Agencies.

There is no guarantee that such Uighur separatists will be found in Afghanistan. Failing to secure definitive proof would be counterproductive, as the European powers would more likely want to distance themselves even further from the CCP.
 

Roger604

Senior Member
中国人民解放军总参谋长陈炳德周四在接受凤凰卫视独家专访时罕有地表示,中国军方已经具备了充分的反恐能力,如果联合国授权允许,中国军方会慎重考虑在上合组织的框架下,派兵到中亚国家,合作打击“东突”恐怖势力。

这表明我国军方对打击恐怖分子有了越境主动出击的新的作战方针,使我们对未来国防战略的发展有了新的期待。

PLA Chief of Staff Chen stated during an interview with Phoenix TV (HK) that Chinese military [ambiguous as to PLA or PAP] has the capability to engage in anti-terrorist operations. If authorized by the UN, China is willing to send troops to Middle Eastern countries in coordination with Shanghai Cooperation Organization to fight ETIM terrorists.

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If a foreign country is financially sponsoring or giving aid to rebellious groups within your own country, it's very difficult to intercept this support. Money and information is too amorphous to intercept.

Although the 007 option is possible, it's extremely expensive and risky. China is particularly poorly situated to do covert operations in Middle East due to cultural reasons. (In contrast, doing covert operations in Asia is significantly easier.)

I think best response is to counterattack in other ways -- trade sanctions, diplomatic isolation, or even sponsorship of similar rebellious groups in their country.

Directly military operation is not a great option. It's not clear at all how China can possibly find ETIM operations in the Middle East. Merely sending PLA to help combat terrorism would help fight terrorism at large, but it wouldn't be specifically targeted against ETIM. On top of that the risk of blowback is huge.
 

bladerunner

Banned Idiot
My expectation, is that either at the time this demand is formally made, or shortly afterwards as response to poor European and possible US Enthusiasm to the demand, that China will undertake a "spectacular" of its own and that this will be in form of a major security operation across its Western Border in Eastern Afghanistan. This Operation will be intense, involve huge numbers of Chinese Ground Forces and Aircraft and result in the "capture" of some leading Uighur separatists and possible even embarrassing documentation regarding links to overseas Intelligence Agencies.

In many ways, this operation will be similar to the Russian operation in Georgia last year, in that it will be short, sharp and then followed by a leisurely withdrawal. The result though will have been to have put on a good show, looked tough at home and abroad and delivered the "evidence" necessary to ensure that continued Overseas support for Chinese Minority Opposition groups is made increasingly difficult (especially if the covert activities suggested by other posters are deemed justifiable to bring into play).

While the above is somewhat wordy, I hope it illustrates the significance of the Ambassadors Statement and the probable path of events it so very strongly alludes too.

I dont think that would be advisable.

Writing an opinion piece in the atimes, I think Sreeram Chaulia is correct in her reasoning for the muted response by most Muslim countries on China's actions in Xinjiang and I don't think China would really want that to change.

Sreeram Chaulia is associate professor of world politics at the Jindal Global Law School in Sonipat, India.
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Geographer

Junior Member
I understand this thread and forum are not for political debates so I'll limit my comments to the military obstacles here. Like others said there isn't an obvious geographic target to attack. At best they could strike of the northwestern regions of Pakistan that everyone else is bombing but they are a different group from the Uighers and Chinese forces would have to cross the Himalayan mountains to get there. Or they could bomb the place but what damage could they do that the Pakistani air force and CIA haven't already done? Do we really think the PLA has better intelligence on that region that those two group?

This does not present a good opportunity for China to flex its military might. The Somalia naval mission is a great start, and a Somali land operation would be extremely impressive and low risk. It'd be impressive because it's so far from China, no one else save France has the guts to men on the ground there, and it's low risk because everyone acknowledges it's open season on the pirates, they are global enemy number 1. China emphasizes national sovereignty the world over (they didn't even recognize South Ossetia even though Russia is their top ally) but Somalia's own "President" has invited foreign invention and UN has cleared it as well.
 

RedMercury

Junior Member
Or they could bomb the place but what damage could they do that the Pakistani air force and CIA haven't already done? Do we really think the PLA has better intelligence on that region that those two group?

Well, perhaps the former do not consider those targets "enemy combatants".
 

bladerunner

Banned Idiot
This does not present a good opportunity for China to flex its military might. The Somalia naval mission is a great start, and a Somali land operation would be extremely impressive and low risk. It'd be impressive because it's so far from China, no one else save France has the guts to men on the ground there, and it's low risk because everyone acknowledges it's open season on the pirates, they are global enemy number 1. China emphasizes national sovereignty the world over (they didn't even recognize South Ossetia even though Russia is their top ally) but Somalia's own "President" has invited foreign invention and UN has cleared it as well.

How does blasting the Living bejezzers out of the Somalis deter any radical Uyghur.
 

Geographer

Junior Member
I'm talking about Somalia as an alternative to going after international Uighur groups because one of the main rationales according to that diplomat and members of this forum for a strike seems to be a desire to show the world China can strike outside its borders. If that's what they want to do, hitting attacking Somali pirates is the best way to start.
 

Finn McCool

Captain
Registered Member
I don't see how overt military action, particularly against Eastern Afghanistan, solves anything. The main problem is that all the Uighur terrorist groups are extremely small and pathetic by international standards. They don't have cross border bases like the Taliban or the FARC or the PKK. They're too small. A Chinese "invasion" of part of Afghanistan would just cause major issues with the US and EU and do no appreciable damage to any Uighur groups. Sure China would look tough domestically, but is it worth it? I don't think so.

Uighur terrorist groups are so small and helpless that they are really a problem for the police, not something you go invading other countries about.
 
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