indian ocean conflict

crazyinsane105

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jatt said:
First. Can the Pak Navy afford something on the same lines? Second. You do realise that the US see's Pakistan as temporary ally on terrorism. Politics in the US could change. The US actually trusts India with more advanced technology than they trust the French. French would sell their souls anyways.

I guess it depends when the Indians ask for them. If the US decides to abandon Pakistan, then would be a good time to ask for the Aegis. Right now wouldn't be the best time because PN can afford something similar to it if it decides not to pursue the U-214's. And yes, for enough money the French would sell the rights to their soul and maybe even their entire country if the price is high enough. :rofl:
 

Gollevainen

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"India ready to export BrahMos"
from the Hindu...

"MUMBAI: India has finally cleared the high-tech supersonic cruise missile, BrahMos, and Chile could be among the first buyers.

"The export of military hardware is no longer an issue, and we have started exporting the BrahMos," Vice-Admiral Madanjit Singh, Flag Officer Commanding-in-Chief, Western Naval Command, said on Thursday. He was addressing a seminar on "Navy-Industry Convergence: Challenges and Opportunities" here.

Later, he told reporters that Defence Minister Pranab Mukherjee and the CEO of BrahMos Aerospace, A. Sivathanu Pillai, were in Chile and finalisation of the missile deal was on the cards. Other countries were also in the process of placing orders for the missile, a result of Indo-Russian joint research. He did not name any country but said some in South-East Asia could be among them.

Missile capabilities


The BrahMos, with a range of 290 km, is capable of delivering an over 300-kg conventional warhead at twice or even thrice the speed of sound. It is the only supersonic missile of its class. The Navy has armed several of its warships, notably the Rajput class destroyers, with the BrahMos, essentially a long-range anti-ship weapon, for a coastal attack role.

The missile is multi-platform capable and a plan is afoot to arm Su-30 multirole aircraft with it for air-to-land combat. Its Army version for land-to-land combat was tested last year.

At the seminar, jointly organised by the Naval Dockyard, Mumbai, and the Confederation of Indian Industry to mark the 270th anniversary of the dockyard, Vice-Admiral Singh told industry that the Navy did not like to depend on foreign suppliers, particularly after the post-Pokhran II sanctions that resulted in its helicopters and fixed-wing aircraft grounded for want of spares. He called upon industry to join the indigenisation process.

20 more warships


The Navy, with 20 warships under construction at different shipyards, offered many an opportunity to the private ship building industry.

Even in large weapon procurement deals, for instance the recently-signed French submarine agreement, there were offset clauses requiring the suppliers to buy Indian components and systems. Industry could avail itself of these opportunities. Foreign suppliers were being encouraged to find an Indian industry partner.

Vic-Admiral Singh told reporters that the offset clause got lost in the documents until recently and the domestic industry did not benefit from it. Now the offsets were being pursued attentively. The implementation of the clause could be linked to the payment stages. Industry could also have tie-ups with the Defence Research and Development Organisation and defence public sector undertakings. He wanted an institutionalised approach to such partnerships.

The Navy was keen on a submarine programme, besides the just-concluded Scorpene deal. "We have operated several types of submarines all the time and now also we are having Russian and German submarines in our inventory." Other submarines were being evaluated for the second programme. To a question, Vice-Admiral Singh said the Navy examined and found the Russian Amur a good submarine but it all depended on the offer.

Asked about the indigenous Trishul surface-to-air missile, he said the Navy needed missiles four times more powerful in terms of range and strike capability. Unlike the BrahMos, the Trishul could not hit a supersonic cruise missile."
 

MIGleader

Banned Idiot
very interesting. only missle of its class? i think the yakont and yj-62 have quite similar abilities.

20 ships under contruction!!???!!
china only has like 2 destroyers, 6 subs, some transports, and possibly a carrier under construction.

america only has like 15,(burkes, a carrier, new lpds made from wtc...
 

crazyinsane105

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MIGleader said:
very interesting. only missle of its class? i think the yakont and yj-62 have quite similar abilities.

20 ships under contruction!!???!!
china only has like 2 destroyers, 6 subs, some transports, and possibly a carrier under construction.

america only has like 15,(burkes, a carrier, new lpds made from wtc...

I doubt the IN has 20 ships under construction. Please explain how the IN can even afford that. Also, for somewhat odd reason the Indian media keeps on bragging about how Brahmos is the only missile in its class when there are a couple of other missiles (which are probably even better than the Brahmos) that are in the same class. Also, for the last time, the Brahmos IS NOT a cruise missile. It is a supersonic missile. A supersonic missile and a cruise missile are two entire different things.
 

tphuang

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MIGleader said:
very interesting. only missle of its class? i think the yakont and yj-62 have quite similar abilities.

20 ships under contruction!!???!!
china only has like 2 destroyers, 6 subs, some transports, and possibly a carrier under construction.

america only has like 15,(burkes, a carrier, new lpds made from wtc...
hehehe, knowing the Indian shipbuilding industry's amazing prowess, I won't be surprised if they are all little vessels and support ships. As far as I know, the future IN plans are pretty much type 17, upgraded type 15 and the Scorpenes. And who knows how many of them are actually currently under construction. I'd guess a couple of type 17 and maybe one type 15?

As for Brahmos, it is really quite different from YJ-62. It's a hi-lo type of missile, whereas YJ-62 is a sea-skimming type. Really, Brahmos is just a faster version of Yakont.

As I have said in the past, Brahmos = the most overrated missile
 

Gollevainen

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As I have said in the past, Brahmos = the most overrated missile

You should then pay bit more attention to the orginal Yakhont missile...wich would have been the next generation of Soviet tactical SSM replacing Malakhit and earlyest Moskits...

Now the sea-skimmer isent automaticly superior to Hi-lo type missiles...KluB (3M-54E) also follows similar flightpath and it makes me wondering why would soviets go this way after relying so long for seaskimmers if it would be inferior to sea-skimming mode??
 

crazyinsane105

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The Brahmos is a very deadly weapon in the Indian arsenal. When a Brahmos is fired, I doubt people would ask whether or not it is Russian or Indian made. The Brahmos goes at the speed of a 7.62 bullet and the kinetic energy released when it hits a target will be enormous. I bet that one Brahmos hit can sink any destroyer the USN has (assuming that the Brahmos gets past the defense systems which it probably won't). So the Brahmos may be overrated, but it still packs a very deadly punch.
 

tphuang

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there are basically three types of AShM.
1. the supersonic hi-lo AShM
2. the subsonic lo-lo AshM with supersonic terminal stage
3. the entirely subsonic lo-lo AshM

Against ships with medium range SAM (ie: 100 to 150KM range)
hi-lo AShM will get detected quite early and start to be targeted.
sea-skimming ones might not be detected until about 30 to 40 KM away from ship. At that time, type 2 would be able to get into their supersonic terminal stage. If this stage uses the same speed as the supersonic missiles, then they pretty much have the same chance of getting intercepted in that final 30 to 40 KM. So, this is an example of Klub vs Yakhont/Brahmos.

imo, there is about 100 KM there that type 1 AShM could be intercepted before it dives into its terminal stage. Remember, Brahmos' lo-lo range is 120KM (probably more in reality, but it's mentionned as 120KM on most sites).

As for type 3 like Harpoon, it generally has greater maneuverability and guidance in the final stage.

I guess you can pick which one you like the most.
 

jatt

Junior Member
tphuang said:
there are basically three types of AShM.
1. the supersonic hi-lo AShM
2. the subsonic lo-lo AshM with supersonic terminal stage
3. the entirely subsonic lo-lo AshM

Against ships with medium range SAM (ie: 100 to 150KM range)
hi-lo AShM will get detected quite early and start to be targeted.
sea-skimming ones might not be detected until about 30 to 40 KM away from ship. At that time, type 2 would be able to get into their supersonic terminal stage. If this stage uses the same speed as the supersonic missiles, then they pretty much have the same chance of getting intercepted in that final 30 to 40 KM. So, this is an example of Klub vs Yakhont/Brahmos.

imo, there is about 100 KM there that type 1 AShM could be intercepted before it dives into its terminal stage. Remember, Brahmos' lo-lo range is 120KM (probably more in reality, but it's mentionned as 120KM on most sites).

As for type 3 like Harpoon, it generally has greater maneuverability and guidance in the final stage.

I guess you can pick which one you like the most.

Sea Skimming missiles also get detected too a little latter than the Hi flying ones.
The Barhmos on a Hi Lo profile goes into sea skimming mode 40 km from the target. Even on a lo lo profile the missile flyes high 40 km away from the traget zone to scan for the target, if it has moved or what ever.
 
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