indian ocean conflict

tphuang · Oct 26, 2005

trkl said:
The Russians are trying to market Su-35BM to PLAAF. It is billed as the last major flanker upgrade before the PAK-FA replaces the flanker, and it will be ready in 2007 at the earliest (probably later). Personally I don't think China will buy any, but others at this forum think China will.

the question is whether this will turn into another mki situation where the plane is not available for like 5 or 6 years. If the Russians actually have something to show China other than drawings and prototypes that can't fly off the ground, China might be tempted. Remember, su-35 was marketed to Brazil a while back, all of AFB favoured getting su-35 when they tested it out. But due to political pressure, they choose Mirage2K.

crazyinsane105 · Oct 27, 2005

Jatt does have a valid point about the Su-35bm. So instead of the Su-35bm, how about an extremely advanced J-10 with European avionics (by that time, the embargo should lifted). And Jatt, I am in no way proposing that these aircraft fly all at once and attack the IN fleet. That would be quite ridiculous. Maybe one sqaudron at the most will fly: half of them as anti-ship and the rest as interceptors. So if you guys have doubts about the Su-35bm, substitute another high tech plane in (be it indigneous J-11B, advanced J-10, etc., but be reasonable: don't say anything like J-XX).

trkl · Oct 27, 2005

Even if the embargo does lift, the Europeans may not sell their most advanced stuff (like AESA radars) to China. I think that the best bet is to just assume that improved versions of J-10, J-11, FC-1, and JH-7 will be in service using improved indiginous technology(which should continue advancing at a rapid pace).

DPRKUnderground · Oct 27, 2005

crazyinsane105 said:
You just can't beleive how many people in PDF think that. I am a Pakistani but honestly, the IAF and IN are in much better shape than the PN. Now, I did make arguements how PN can fight, but only defensively. I can't see PN winning against the IN singlehandedly. Same goes with the PAF. The PAF can really hurt the IAF, but the PAF is a purely defensive force while the IAF is both a defensive and offensive one. Even with the induction of F-16's, JF-17's, and even another fighter jet, PAF will still have to deal with a huge IAF along with a thick air defense system. So PAF will still be a defensive force for another decade or so.

As for the IAF, well, I would like to know exactly what makes many Indians think that they will actually get the PAK FA. Who is the US going to give its F-22's to? Nobody. They aren't even going to give it to Israel (the US has yet to give Israel stealth tech). So why would the Russians give away their stealth plane? And EVEN if they decide to sell it, it won't be until AFTER it has been inducted into the Russian air force (and God knows how long that will take). So maybe after 2020 the IAF can get the PAK FA. As for the Brahmos, the Russians have access to the codes so that really raises questions on who made the Brahmos after all. And the IN has NOTHING compared to the Aegis and won't for a while. Yes, the Barak is a good system, but I doubt it has anything near the Aegis system. A saturated missile attack can most likely cause the system to fail. I have yet to hear of the Barak shooting down supersonic missiles (at least the USN tests the Aegis against supersonic targets). So MigLeader, very good point.

On a positive note, this conversation is very professional. If this same conversation was taking place on PDF or some other Pakistani or Indian forum, we all have a good idea of the type of language that would be used.

I think some guys from the PDF opened a new better forum, much better. Go to

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

, you won't have to deal w/ the annoying newbs and kiddie people who are like,"F-22, blah blah blah".
112 F-16MLUs and C/D Block 52s, JF-17s, and another fighter, either the J-10 or Gripen, It's a threatening Air Force. but when you compare it to India, who will have about 120 Su-30MKIs, 70 MiG-29s of multiple variants, and 50 Mirage 2000s, it isn't as threatening. Hopefully the skills of the Pakistani pilots could narrow the the technological difference. You should have read what Chuck Horner had to say about Pakistani pilots, they were so worried about the Iraqis b/c they got training from Pakistan. But he spoke to a Pakistani pilot who went to Iraq to train them. He said that Iraqi training was heavily dominated by the Soviets, who only taught them the basics

jatt · Oct 27, 2005

I do recall one of Harry B's posts about the MiG-27 in InAF service which happens to be used for maritime strike now. Apparently it's true that they are being used. Perhaps these are the ones that have recieved the MLU.

crazyinsane105 · Oct 27, 2005

DPRKUnderground said:
I think some guys from the PDF opened a new better forum, much better. Go to
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
, you won't have to deal w/ the annoying newbs and kiddie people who are like,"F-22, blah blah blah".
112 F-16MLUs and C/D Block 52s, JF-17s, and another fighter, either the J-10 or Gripen, It's a threatening Air Force. but when you compare it to India, who will have about 120 Su-30MKIs, 70 MiG-29s of multiple variants, and 50 Mirage 2000s, it isn't as threatening. Hopefully the skills of the Pakistani pilots could narrow the the technological difference. You should have read what Chuck Horner had to say about Pakistani pilots, they were so worried about the Iraqis b/c they got training from Pakistan. But he spoke to a Pakistani pilot who went to Iraq to train them. He said that Iraqi training was heavily dominated by the Soviets, who only taught them the basics

When you compare size of Pakistan (geographically speaking), 112 F-16MLU's and C/D Block 52's, JF-17's, AWAC's, and another fighter plane is more than enough to defend Pakistan's airspace. Add to the fact that Pakistan will probably make some very large SAM purchases from China by 2012 (Chinese SAM technology by then should be equivalent to its European counterparts), the PAF along with air defense should cause the IAF enough of a headache. Remember, PAF is NOT an offensive force. All PAF has to do is to deny the IAF or any other enemy air supremacy over Pakistani air space. And I doubt that the IAF would be stupid enough to send waves and waves of Flankers into Pakistan. PAF cannot commence heavy offensive operations in India because of the numerical supermacy of the IAF and because of India's reasonable thick air defense system. So in my opinion, it would be a stalemate of some sort between PAF and IAF by 2012 if a war erupts. And since we are talking about a naval conflict in 2012, the entry of PAF can really take away badly needed resources from the IAF to strike at the PLAN. So the playing fields for all sides should be about the same.

tphuang · Oct 27, 2005

crazyinsane105 said:
When you compare size of Pakistan (geographically speaking), 112 F-16MLU's and C/D Block 52's, JF-17's, AWAC's, and another fighter plane is more than enough to defend Pakistan's airspace. Add to the fact that Pakistan will probably make some very large SAM purchases from China by 2012 (Chinese SAM technology by then should be equivalent to its European counterparts), the PAF along with air defense should cause the IAF enough of a headache. Remember, PAF is NOT an offensive force. All PAF has to do is to deny the IAF or any other enemy air supremacy over Pakistani air space. And I doubt that the IAF would be stupid enough to send waves and waves of Flankers into Pakistan. PAF cannot commence heavy offensive operations in India because of the numerical supermacy of the IAF and because of India's reasonable thick air defense system. So in my opinion, it would be a stalemate of some sort between PAF and IAF by 2012 if a war erupts. And since we are talking about a naval conflict in 2012, the entry of PAF can really take away badly needed resources from the IAF to strike at the PLAN. So the playing fields for all sides should be about the same.

The Chinese SAM technology right now is probably equivalent to Europe. The things China learnt from Indigenizing S-300PMU/PMU2 into HQ-10/15 and other indigenous projects really helps.

jatt · Oct 28, 2005

Interesting.

26 October 2005
Inside Missile Defense

Lockheed Martin and Spanish shipbuilder Navantia performed successful initial at-sea testing of the first Aegis Weapon System equipped with the new SPY-1F radar, according to an Oct. 10 Lockheed Martin statement. The sea trials were conducted aboard a Norwegian frigate off the coast of Spain, the statement said.

....

Australia recently selected Aegis for its Air Warfare Destroyer program, and India has requested information on Aegis as well, Ross mentioned. Israel and a few other Mediterranean rim countries have expressed interest in parts of Aegis, but no sales are imminent at this time, he said.

On Oct. 12, Lockheed announced that Aegis moved to an open computing architecture with the successful integration and demonstration of multiple subsystems built with commercial system software.

A Lockheed statement said that Aegis open architecture will reduce the cost of the weapon system by allowing the Navy, and foreign navies, to install software and other technology upgrades faster and cheaper. -- Zachary M. Peterson

crazyinsane105 · Oct 28, 2005

If India does get the Aegis, then Pakistan will request for something very similar to it. The US will have to give in because it will be hypocritical if they don't.

jatt · Oct 28, 2005

crazyinsane105 said:
If India does get the Aegis, then Pakistan will request for something very similar to it. The US will have to give in because it will be hypocritical if they don't.

First. Can the Pak Navy afford something on the same lines? Second. You do realise that the US see's Pakistan as temporary ally on terrorism. Politics in the US could change. The US actually trusts India with more advanced technology than they trust the French. French would sell their souls anyways.

indian ocean conflict

tphuang

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trkl

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tphuang

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