Pointblank
Senior Member
The French would have to reverse engineer or develop their own catapult, as the French used American made catapults in their old Clemenceau class carriers, and in the Charles de Gaulle.
Indian navy running into carrier problems....
- Thread starter crazyinsane105
- Start date
The French would have to reverse engineer or develop their own catapult, as the French used American made catapults in their old Clemenceau class carriers, and in the Charles de Gaulle.
The metal may already be cut for this first new CV, but construction hasn't really started, so it's now or never if India wants to get the best advice going in order to finally get their own carrier program (eventually) off on the right foot. Given that the US and India seem to be getting much closer (and India and Russia are experiencing some chills), now might be a good time for some serious naval design and construction cooperation.
I mean, all this warm, fuzzy stuff is new between the US and India, and you don't want to go too far too fast in a situation like this. But kind of like when when a man is trying to woo a woman, sometimes a little surreptitiousness is in order: after all, she may say that she doesn't want you to do such-and-such (but really does need or want it), but sometimes, sometimes she'll forget all about that (or at least forgive you in short order) once she's presented with a fait accompli (put very, very delicately).
And so a little behind the scenes help, concealed from the public (especially the Indian public), if India should quietly desire such from the US, could just win India over and solidify the developing relationship with the US (and get the Indian carrier program in gear and producing ships that will please the Indian Navy).
LOL, you're just naive. The least thing US wants to see is a country with a powerful navy near India Ocean, you don't know what will happen down the road in 20 years.
With allthe dramas happened to IN's new CVs, I really start to worry about Chinese new CVs. At least for IN theyhave some experience with operating a small carrier group. So even with all the delays on the construction, they should gain some time from what happens next. However, everything about CV are complete new to PLAN. What's more, from what we heard so far the first Chinese CV will definitely be either totally indigenous, or nearly indigenous. Either way, it(they)'ll be build in China by Chinese without much of help from either Russia or the west. Let's just fingers crossed.
But the Indians have never built one themselves...and the Russians have never done a refurb job like this on an old carrier. There were bound to be problems, and there were bound to be unforseen issues. A good Project Management team would have accounted for those eventualities in their estimates and schedules...and maybe they did. We just do not know what happened once the politicians got involved to what may have been good initial estimates.
I believe the refitted Varyag will be the first PLAN carrier...and that it will be plowing the waves in late 2008 or 2009. As that goes, the PLAN has been very careful and measured in its work on refurbishing the Varyag. They probably have more experience in this type of job (refurbishing/rebuilding an older carrier) than do the Russians at this point. They have held their cards close to the chest, and have not tried to do too much too fast. I believe they will eventually produce a good vessel...and in so doing, they will have helped themselves in getting ready for the new construction of the fully indegenous carrier in a big way.
But that's just my opinion on the matter.
I am not surprise by India's failure in building all those expensive gears, but their effort continuing to repeat the same mistakes. India today is in no position in developing indigenous aircraft carriers, their industry base simply forbids that.
From steel, power plant, mechanical equiments... to sonar, electronic devices, radar.., India can rarely build any of them, they can't even make an indigenous conventional sub, and still pour resource to build VC? This is the typical case that capability can't meet ambition. And it's quite astonishing that India even can't learn from its past mistakes, only keeps repeating the same misfortunes again and again.
From steel, power plant, mechanical equiments... to sonar, electronic devices, radar.., India can rarely build any of them, they can't even make an indigenous conventional sub, and still pour resource to build VC? This is the typical case that capability can't meet ambition. And it's quite astonishing that India even can't learn from its past mistakes, only keeps repeating the same misfortunes again and again.
Maybe, but a guy can still dream!
Yes, it's difficult to say what can happen in even a few years, let alone a generation or so down the road. As they say, regardless of capabilities, intentions can still change.
The Chinese have been taking it very slow until recently, and presumably they have spent the last 20 years or so very intently building up their knowledge of what to do to build a carrier, and what sorts of potential issues to anticipate. Not that that's a replacement for experience, but it may be that China has a better sense of what to do than some other countries starting out on their own building carriers.
There is an issue that may or may not pertain to the construction of the indigenous Indian carriers, and may or may not prove to be a problem once construction begins in earnest, and that is the general shortage of skilled tradesmen in the Indian economy. As I said, this may or may not be a problem for the Cochin Shipyard, but it has certainly been a long-standing issue for the Indian economy in general.
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keysersoze
New Member
what do you guys make of this?
Russia to deliver Gorshkov on schedule: Sibal
Moscow, Aug 13: Russia will deliver aircraft carrier Admiral Gorshkov to India as per schedule as stakes are "very high" for both the countries in the flagship defence project, India’s outgoing ambassador Kanwal Sibal said.
"Officially the Russian government has communicated to us in writing that Gorshkov will be delivered on schedule. If the situation were to change we would have been communicated in writing," Sibal said commenting on media reports about delay in the delivery of Kiev class aircraft carrier to the Indian navy.
"We have monitoring teams on the ground at Sevmash shipyard and are aware of the situation on the ground," the envoy said addressing a news conference here at the end of his three year Moscow stint.
Earlier, Russian media had reported about the delay of two-three years in delivery of retrofitted aircraft carrier against the delivery schedule of August 2008, mainly due to cost escalation and ill financing.
"Gorshkov is a flagship project of our defence cooperation. It is a high visibility project and its timely implementation would have impact on public opinion in India and demonstrate to the international community Russia's technological capability. So the stakes are very high for both the countries," Sibal observed.
Russian government has dismissed the director of Severodvinsk (north Russia) based Sevmash shipyard for the slippage in the schedule of Gorshkov upgrade and is believed to be making efforts on war footing to complete the USD 1.5 bn contract signed in January 2005 on time.
Bureau Report
Russia to deliver Gorshkov on schedule: Sibal
Moscow, Aug 13: Russia will deliver aircraft carrier Admiral Gorshkov to India as per schedule as stakes are "very high" for both the countries in the flagship defence project, India’s outgoing ambassador Kanwal Sibal said.
"Officially the Russian government has communicated to us in writing that Gorshkov will be delivered on schedule. If the situation were to change we would have been communicated in writing," Sibal said commenting on media reports about delay in the delivery of Kiev class aircraft carrier to the Indian navy.
"We have monitoring teams on the ground at Sevmash shipyard and are aware of the situation on the ground," the envoy said addressing a news conference here at the end of his three year Moscow stint.
Earlier, Russian media had reported about the delay of two-three years in delivery of retrofitted aircraft carrier against the delivery schedule of August 2008, mainly due to cost escalation and ill financing.
"Gorshkov is a flagship project of our defence cooperation. It is a high visibility project and its timely implementation would have impact on public opinion in India and demonstrate to the international community Russia's technological capability. So the stakes are very high for both the countries," Sibal observed.
Russian government has dismissed the director of Severodvinsk (north Russia) based Sevmash shipyard for the slippage in the schedule of Gorshkov upgrade and is believed to be making efforts on war footing to complete the USD 1.5 bn contract signed in January 2005 on time.
Bureau Report
Seems to me the Russians are very unhappy with how the whole situation has developed. They fired some people and are at least claiming that the ship will be delivered on time...
This is probaly a move to keep that Indian money rolling in. They don't want to lose out to an EU nation..We will have to wait and see what happens.
This is probaly a move to keep that Indian money rolling in. They don't want to lose out to an EU nation..We will have to wait and see what happens.
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Can she be delivered on time? Probably. But it would mean pulling out all the stops and throwing money and manpower at the project like they were going out of fashion. India won't get the extra bill, this will be about Russia and the shipyard taking a big hit on their profits in order to save face. Will she be everything they have claimed when in service? I hope so for the sake of her crew...