Indian navy running into carrier problems....

Deleted member 675 · Aug 12, 2007

Neutral Zone said:
I have a nasty feeling that we may be reading similar stories about Queen Elizabeth in 5 years time.

Some people believe that being so pessimistic creates enough negative energy to cause such worst-case scenarios to happen.

Although it is possible for some hiccups along the way, I'm sure the Queen-Elizabeth class will be delivered more-or-less on time. I was willing to put my neck out in saying that the project would be approved, and I'll do it again to say it will work out well in the end (bar a few minor delays).

bd popeye · Aug 12, 2007

Almost a couple a years ago I mentioned that I hope the IN is keeping a close eye on those Russians. Indianfighter said the IN had officers in Russia watching the whole project..

I would like to know what happened???? What caused this massive delay? This is a kin to "grand theft CV"...

As for the new CV...They need to contact some naval engineers from Northrup Grumman in the US to help set the straight..With the US permission of course..

harryRIEDL · Aug 12, 2007

FuManChu said:
Some people believe that being so pessimistic creates enough negative energy to cause such worst-case scenarios to happen.

Although it is possible for some hiccups along the way, I'm sure the Queen-Elizabeth class will be delivered more-or-less on time. I was willing to put my neck out in saying that the project would be approved, and I'll do it again to say it will work out well in the end (bar a few minor delays).

any more pessimistic energy their will be a rip in the space time contuime

Neutral Zone · Aug 12, 2007

bd popeye said:
Someone preaching "Doom & Gloom" already.. jeez....

I'm sure the UK will enlist the help of it's allies..i.e. USA..to help in the CVF design and construction..

After the "show" with the USMC on board HMS Illustrious you know there is a spirit of cooperation between the RN/USMC & USN..Let's us RN fans hope and pray it continues with the CVF...

I hope so too Popeye! Building a carrier is a hugely complex undertaking. I'm just concerned because just about every recent major RN project, Albion class LPD's, Astute class SSN's and Type 45's have run into construction difficulties. I think they had to get designers from Electric Boat over to sort out the problems with the Astutes. The RN has contracted so much that we now just don't build major warships on a regular basis anymore, the USN nearly always has CV's, Amphibs or subs at some stage of the build process. When the RN needs a new major warship, we usually find that it's been so long since we last built that class of ship that the necessary skills and knowledge of designers and the shipyards have been lost and that usually means delays and spiralling costs. Like you say I hope that they have consultants from Newport News shipbuilding lending a hand with the CVF's. I'm just concerned that if the project is delayed or goes over budget then a future government will use it a s an excuse to cancel one or both of the ships.

harryRIEDL · Aug 12, 2007

Neutral Zone said:
I hope so too Popeye! Building a carrier is a hugely complex undertaking. I'm just concerned because just about every recent major RN project, Albion class LPD's, Astute class SSN's and Type 45's have run into construction difficulties. I think they had to get designers from Electric Boat over to sort out the problems with the Astutes. The RN has contracted so much that we now just don't build major warships on a regular basis anymore, the USN nearly always has CV's, Amphibs or subs at some stage of the build process. When the RN needs a new major warship, we usually find that it's been so long since we last built that class of ship that the necessary skills and knowledge of designers and the shipyards have been lost and that usually means delays and spiralling costs. Like you say I hope that they have consultants from Newport News shipbuilding lending a hand with the CVF's. I'm just concerned that if the project is delayed or goes over budget then a future government will use it a s an excuse to cancel one or both of the ships.

every ship building navy has huge problems these days the [UK France US]

tphuang · Aug 12, 2007

bd popeye said:
Almost a couple a years ago I mentioned that I hope the IN is keeping a close eye on those Russians. Indianfighter said the IN had officers in Russia watching the whole project..

I would like to know what happened???? What caused this massive delay? This is a kin to "grand theft CV"...

As for the new CV...They need to contact some naval engineers from Northrup Grumman in the US to help set the straight..With the US permission of course..

you try to nickel and dime on something as complex as an aircraft carrier and you get what you get. The Indian government/engineers are at fault for not assessing the situations ahead of time and end up getting fooled into this contract. You can't fault the Russians for trying to sell this piece of junk. Now, you end up with an old hull of a really old type of carrier that always had propulsion problems and is restricted to carrying a dozen mig-29s + some kamov helos. For what? constant delays + escalation cost to probably 1.2 billion USD just for the ship itself.

Neutral Zone · Aug 12, 2007

tphuang said:
you try to nickel and dime on something as complex as an aircraft carrier and you get what you get. The Indian government/engineers are at fault for not assessing the situations ahead of time and end up getting fooled into this contract. You can't fault the Russians for trying to sell this piece of junk. Now, you end up with an old hull of a really old type of carrier that always had propulsion problems and is restricted to carrying a dozen mig-29s + some kamov helos. For what? constant delays + escalation cost to probably 1.2 billion USD just for the ship itself.

Wasn't the original plan was for Gorshkov to be an interim platform to allow the IN to build up experience of STOBAR ops and train up the pilots for the airgroups of the indigenous Vikrant class carriers, which look a much better package than Gorshkov? Had the ship been delivered more or less on time and budget then it would have been a good piece of business, but as you say the Indians clearly didn't do their homework on this and the Russians have taken them for a ride.

bd popeye · Aug 12, 2007

harryRIEDL said:
every ship building navy has huge problems these days the [UK France US]

True..The USN has in fact had major troubles with the new LPD-17 class. Despite this the LPD-17 spent 220 days at sea its first year of operation.

The USS Ronald Reagan suffered problems it's first year of comission.

crazyinsane105 · Aug 12, 2007

With the amount of time and money spent, India would have probably been able to get a brand new hull and a larger ship that could have housed twice as many aircraft. This is what happens when you have politicians making the deals for the military, politicians whom I should add that also make a fortune in kickbacks and bribes....

maglomanic · Aug 13, 2007

Was French option viable given rafale could have been acquired for both IAF and IN??

The only problem i can think of is the US made Catapult on French Carrier. Is it possible for french to make them locally if a customer insists?

I think it would have fit in quite nicely with IAF/IN plans and opened door for various other weapon systems.

Indian navy running into carrier problems....

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