Indian Military News, Reports, Data, etc.

Biscuits

Major
Registered Member
This statement is not mine but was made by the serving IAF chief during an official press conference.
Who is an unreliable source, because he counteracts what the 2 premier air forces in the world and their officials have decided (not to mention other major and middle power air force). His words have hurt the credibility of the Indian Air Force as an institution.

Denying the top experts in the field who have each done thousands if not tens of thousands of drills in their 5th gen fighters make this Indian Air Force leader look like a retard, and so does anyone unironically parroting his words.
 

Deino

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Registered Member
The Su-57 was initially a collaborative project between India and Russia, but India withdrew from the initiative due to a failure to reach a mutual agreement on the jet.
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The Indian Air Force does not regard the Su-57 as a fifth-generation fighter jet. They have explicitly stated that none of their neighbors possess a 5th generation fighter jet. Furthermore, they have consistently emphasized that the F-22 and F-35 are the only fifth-generation fighter jets produced thus far.


Could you please take a deep, deep breath and calm down and in consequence stop spreading bolt statements and claims like this and others before - as if Tejas would be stealthy and close or even on par with 5th generation types due to its "small size" :rolleyes: - ... you are repeatedly posting lunatic and at best highly "questionable" claims.
 
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Pataliputra

Junior Member
Registered Member
Could you please take a deep, deep breath and calm down and in consequence stop spreading bolt statements and claims like this and others before - as if Tejas would be stealthy and close or even on par with 5th generation types due to its "small size" :rolleyes: - ... you are repeatedly posting lunatic and at best highly "questionable" claims.
Tejas possesses the smallest Radar Cross Section (RCS) among 4th generation fighter jets. This isn't solely due to its compact size but also stems from its geometric stealth features, radar-observant coating, and various elements such as Y intake, indium tin oxide coating on the cockpit, a 90% carbon composite airframe, among others. While other 4th generation jets like Rafales, Gripens, and Eurofighters are stealth-optimized, Tejas surpasses them in stealth, partially due to their larger size. Notably, Tejas MK2, though larger than MK1A, is anticipated to maintain a smaller RCS as it represents the latest advancements in 4th generation fighter jets.

stealth considerations were integral to Tejas' design, and being the latest 4th generation fighter jet, Tejas MK2, set to take its first flight in 2026-28, will incorporate even more advanced stealth features. In contrast, the F16, designed in 1970, faces limitations in modifications despite ongoing updates, as the fundamental design imposes constraints on substantial alterations to the platform.
 
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Pataliputra

Junior Member
Registered Member
Indian ego would not let the west actually control them.

I find it way more likely they'll get Su-57 in the end. Because they can request some modifications and pass it off as "joint India-foreign" pride project, whereas with F-35, they will be forced to show submission to America. Besides, it's a major risk for US to give it to India as well, because India is never 100% aligned with someone, and may even turn on a dime randomly.

Suppose China uses a bunch of espionage efforts, how easy wouldn't it to get blueprints/instructions or even pilfer a whole F-35 defector, given the vast gulf in living standard and economic means of coercion between the 2 countries? India would be the only F-35 country that is third world (besides Israel, but Israel is fully puppeted inside and out by US).

Although China may sell 5th gen to Pakistan, which is a country where US can relatively easily infiltrate as well, but the risk will be mitigated more, as the J-31 can be stripped down for export relative to J-35, while US doesn't have export version F-35, they will expose their own important fighters if the data is leaked.

The only time US could sell India F-35 is maybe if the F-35 is so cabbagized that's its no different than selling 4.5gen today. I.e. when PLAAF and USAF are on 6th gen.

But imho if that happens, India is more likely picking the cabbagized 5th gen of a non superpower major country, similar to how they picked Rafale for their 4.5gen. Either some future euro/france project or maybe the Korean kf-21.
What exactly constitutes a 6th generation fighter jet is yet to be precisely defined. Currently, the term "6th generation" is considered more of a conceptual term without a concrete definition, similar to the debated concept of 4.5 generation. The existing fighter jets, including Tejas, Rafales, Euro Fighter, J10, Gripen, upcoming Tejas MK2, F16, and FA18, fall within the 4th generation category. Nomenclatures like 4.5, 4.6, 4.8 are often viewed as marketing tactics.
 

Deino

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Registered Member
Tejas possesses the smallest Radar Cross Section (RCS) among 4th generation fighter jets. This isn't solely due to its compact size but also stems from its geometric stealth features, radar-observant coating, and various elements such as Y intake, indium tin oxide coating on the cockpit, a 90% carbon composite airframe, among others. While other 4th generation jets like Rafales, Gripens, and Eurofighters are stealth-optimized, Tejas surpasses them in stealth, partially due to their larger size. Notably, Tejas MK2, though larger than MK1A, is anticipated to maintain a smaller RCS as it represents the latest advancements in 4th generation fighter jets.

stealth considerations were integral to Tejas' design, and being the latest 4th generation fighter jet, Tejas MK2, set to take its first flight in 2026-28, will incorporate even more advanced stealth features. In contrast, the F16, designed in 1970, faces limitations in modifications despite ongoing updates, as the fundamental design imposes constraints on substantial alterations to the platform.


Oh do us a favour and stop with thsi BS … Or at least give us some proof!
On the one side you try to portray the Tejas the epitome of a 4th generation fighter, almost up to a 5th generation type „due to its small RCS“ and tell us in the same thread, the J-20 in service almost close to 300 examples is not a stealth fighter since your air cjhief says so? That‘s ridicolous ..

But back to the Tejas and its RCS: You mentioned a few details reducing its RCS but these are irrelevant if it the built quality is not on par with other types, the top side may be fine for RCS reduction, but all other sides are plain shitty or just comparable to other fourth generation fighters. And in the end, even if indeed having a smaller RCS comparable to let‘s say a F-16 or Mirage 2000 or MiG-29, what does this all you if range is too limited, load carrying capabilities are at best mediocre and serviceability - as perfectly demonstrated on the latest air show demonstrations - has severe issues too?
Why is the IAF itself reluctant to order the Tejas Mk1/1A in larger numbers other than to save face for political reasons?
Why has the IN reduced the Tejas-N to a technology demonstrator only and will go for a true modern type? Simply since it is too small, too weak in comparison to anything available within the same generation but already flying since years or shall I say decades and probably too expensive too. That‘s a fact, plain and simple.

And so what does HAL and politicians do? Request for a major upgrade to Mk2 which is de facto a new aircraft … which - more than unsurprisingly - will be ready much later than promised, fly even again much later and enter service at a date, that makes no sense!

Again, the Tejas is - or better to say “would be“ - a fine aircraft, good looking and interesting in many aspects, but due to several reasons it is no longer what the IAF needs, what is needed in modern aerial warfare - and in fact exactly a reason why the J-10C , which is operational in much larger numbers since years - is downscaled in production and use and larger more capable more modern types are prioritised. The Mk.2 as such will be fine too, but about 40 years too late and still not what the IAF needs then in early to mid-2030s.

As such in conclusion and in no way meant as an insult offence against India or what India archived in recent years, but simply a fact. We need to stay realistic in our assessments and in fact many Indians I know including high ranking analysts admit this even if they all say due to the political background they are not allowed to say this in the public.
 
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CasualObserver

Junior Member
Registered Member
Oh do us a favour and stop with thsi BS … Or at least give us some proof!
On the one side you try to portray the Tejas the epitome of a 4th generation fighter, almost up to a 5th generation type „due to its small RCS“ and tell us in the same thread, the J-20 in service almost close to 300 examples is not a stealth fighter since your air cjhief says so? That‘s ridicolous ..

But back to the Tejas and its RCS: You mentioned a few details reducing its RCS but these are irrelevant if it the built quality is not on par with other types, the top side may be fine for RCS reduction, but all other sides are plain shitty or just comparable to other fourth generation fighters. And in the end, even if indeed having a smaller RCS comparable to let‘s say a F-16 or Mirage 2000 or MiG-29, what does this all you if range is too limited, load carrying capabilities are at best mediocre and serviceability - as perfectly demonstrated on the latest air show demonstrations - has severe issues too?
Why is the IAF itself reluctant to order the Tejas Mk1/1A in larger numbers other than to save face for political reasons?
Why has the IN reduced the Tejas-N to a technology demonstrator only and will go for a true modern type? Simply since it is too small, too weak in comparison to anything available within the same generation but already flying since years or shall I say decades and probably too expensive too. That‘s a fact, plain and simple.

And so what does HAL and politicians do? Request for a major upgrade to Mk2 which is de facto a new aircraft … which - more than unsurprisingly - will be ready much later than promised, fly even again much later and enter service at a date, that makes no sense!

Again, the Tejas is - or better to say “would be“ - a fine aircraft, good looking and interesting in many aspects, but due to several reasons it is no longer what the IAF needs, what is needed in modern aerial warfare - and in fact exactly a reason why the J-10C , which is operational in much larger numbers since years - is downscaled in production and use and larger more capable more modern types are prioritised. The Mk.2 as such will be fine too, but about 40 years too late and still not what the IAF needs then in early to mid-2030s.
The whole Indian industrial planning and military acqusition plans desperately need to be critically reevaluated... It is just such a waste of potential that it hurts one's soul...
 

gelgoog

Lieutenant General
Registered Member
I would say the Tejas likely has an RCS smaller than that of the F-16. I think the F-16 is supposed to have like 1.2 sq meter RCS clean.
The Tejas is a smaller aircraft than the F-16 and is made of composites so it should have smaller RCS.

So if the Tejas turned out to have like 0.6 sq meter RCS clean I wouldn't be too surprised. But of course it is going to have much worse RCS than a 5th gen because of the airframe shape. It isn't optimized for stealth at all.
 

Gloire_bb

Captain
Registered Member
Tejas possesses the smallest Radar Cross Section (RCS) among 4th generation fighter jets.
This is technically possible, but unsubstantiated.
It is not a stealth jet in any case, and no, even being stealthiest of non-stealth doesn't make it almost stealth. Not even close.

LO is a dedicated effort from the drawing board. Which, by the way, isn't readily apparent in Tejas.
stealth considerations were integral to Tejas' design
From external features at least, they weren't much of a concern - unlike, say, on Eurocanards, where measures are visible.
 

ansy1968

Brigadier
Registered Member
I would say the Tejas likely has an RCS smaller than that of the F-16. I think the F-16 is supposed to have like 1.2 sq meter RCS clean.
The Tejas is a smaller aircraft than the F-16 and is made of composites so it should have smaller RCS.

So if the Tejas turned out to have like 0.6 sq meter RCS clean I wouldn't be too surprised. But of course it is going to have much worse RCS than a 5th gen because of the airframe shape. It isn't optimized for stealth at all.
Bro do you truly believed that? IF yes I have a Bhagalpur Bridge to sell you. ;)
 
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