Indian Military News, Reports, Data, etc.
- Thread starter bd popeye
- Start date
Although I find your insights into Russian military/industry valuable, I cannot restrain myself from expressing that this is just plain nonsense.
@vincent sorry for going off-topic but someone had to say it
The collaboration between India and Russia could have played a pivotal role in the Su57, offering essential financial support and contributing to technological advancements. This partnership model has been successful in the past with joint projects like the Su30MKI and BrahMos.
Both Su-30MKI and Brahmos are developments of an already existing product, though.
With PAK-FA/FGFA India wanted way over what they were paying for. Given that Russia simply could absorb the whole paycheck her own - the result was as expected.
In contrast, a single India-specific Rafale amounts to 400 million USD, the Tejas MK1A is priced at 67 million USD each, and the Indian upgrade package for 150 Su30MKI exceeds 9 billion USD.
Look. You seem to think, like a lot of Western so called analysts, that Russia needed Indian funding to get the Su-57 into production. That Russia lacked the financial means to develop the project and get it into production. I will just give you a couple instances to show this isn't true.
"Russia and India have signed a protocol for financing the Kundankulam Nuclear Power Project (KKNPP). As per the protocol, Russian federation will be providing $3400 million for financing upto 85% of value of works, supplies and services to be provided by Russian organizations for KKNPP Units 3 & 4."
Basically Russia provided India a 3.4 billion USD loan in 2012 to sell them two nuclear power plants. And these loans typically operate where you only start paying the loan after the nuclear power plants start delivering energy to the grid. Which might take 8 years from start of construction or more. Fact is the two nuclear power plants units are supposed to start operating soon but aren't even operating yet. So you can pretty much bet that India hasn't started repaying the bulk monetary amount of the loan yet. And even after they do, it might take them two decades to repay the loan.
And this isn't even the only instance.
"Russia signed an agreement with the Indian government on Thursday to build two new reactors for the Kudankulam nuclear power station in Tamil Nadu and said it would loan India $4.2 billion to help fund construction.
...
The agreement to build reactors 5 and 6 at Kudankulam was signed in St Petersburg during a meeting between Putin and Modi at an economic forum. It should help cement already close ties between the two countries."
That's another 4.2 billion USD loan from Russia to India to build another two nuclear power plants in 2017.
India allegedly paid $295 million USD in the period it was involved in the PAK FGFA project with the Russians. Just compare the value of that amount with the loans Russia granted them. That money wouldn't pay for a single Rafale aircraft.
I rest my case.
As for Indian technological input into the Su-57 family this wasn't needed. Although it would have helped if India had also worked on the software this ended up not happening because India pulled out of the project. I have seen some people claim that India contributed know how in composites. But guess what, Russia builds its uranium gas centrifuges out of carbon composites, this is done by a division of Rosatom. For strategic reasons these composites were always made in Russia never imported. As for the AESA radar it is quite well known that the Russians developed the N036 themselves as well.
India would have helped amortize the cost of developing the Su-57 platform. But the idea that the Russians couldn't afford to do it themselves is ludicrous. As was clearly displayed in the fact that it has entered service and serial production since.
"Russia and India have signed a protocol for financing the Kundankulam Nuclear Power Project (KKNPP). As per the protocol, Russian federation will be providing $3400 million for financing upto 85% of value of works, supplies and services to be provided by Russian organizations for KKNPP Units 3 & 4."
Basically Russia provided India a 3.4 billion USD loan in 2012 to sell them two nuclear power plants. And these loans typically operate where you only start paying the loan after the nuclear power plants start delivering energy to the grid. Which might take 8 years from start of construction or more. Fact is the two nuclear power plants units are supposed to start operating soon but aren't even operating yet. So you can pretty much bet that India hasn't started repaying the bulk monetary amount of the loan yet. And even after they do, it might take them two decades to repay the loan.
And this isn't even the only instance.
"Russia signed an agreement with the Indian government on Thursday to build two new reactors for the Kudankulam nuclear power station in Tamil Nadu and said it would loan India $4.2 billion to help fund construction.
...
The agreement to build reactors 5 and 6 at Kudankulam was signed in St Petersburg during a meeting between Putin and Modi at an economic forum. It should help cement already close ties between the two countries."
That's another 4.2 billion USD loan from Russia to India to build another two nuclear power plants in 2017.
India allegedly paid $295 million USD in the period it was involved in the PAK FGFA project with the Russians. Just compare the value of that amount with the loans Russia granted them. That money wouldn't pay for a single Rafale aircraft.
I rest my case.
As for Indian technological input into the Su-57 family this wasn't needed. Although it would have helped if India had also worked on the software this ended up not happening because India pulled out of the project. I have seen some people claim that India contributed know how in composites. But guess what, Russia builds its uranium gas centrifuges out of carbon composites, this is done by a division of Rosatom. For strategic reasons these composites were always made in Russia never imported. As for the AESA radar it is quite well known that the Russians developed the N036 themselves as well.
India would have helped amortize the cost of developing the Su-57 platform. But the idea that the Russians couldn't afford to do it themselves is ludicrous. As was clearly displayed in the fact that it has entered service and serial production since.
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Same source he got the LCA MK-1A RCS figures from.
Are you implying that a country like India, which invests hundreds of billions of dollars in importing military hardware and has a foreign exchange of over 600 billion USD, lacked the 4 or 5 billion USD required to fund the construction of these nuclear power plants?