Indian Military News, Reports, Data, etc.

Aswin_hht

New Member
Registered Member
Yes i heard that too. The India can actually get away wit scaled up Uttam tbh, although yes the "scaling" could probably be not worth the effort and the desire for GaN.
Yeah, scaling would've been an easier way out but I believe they wanna work on a GaN based radar for the AMCA platform as well, so designing one for the SU-30 MKI upgrade might make things quicker for the AMCA development. Indian projects usually face a lot of delays and any steps to mitigate these delays can be considered as a positive sign.
 

Lethe

Captain
Yeah, scaling would've been an easier way out but I believe they wanna work on a GaN based radar for the AMCA platform as well, so designing one for the SU-30 MKI upgrade might make things quicker for the AMCA development. Indian projects usually face a lot of delays and any steps to mitigate these delays can be considered as a positive sign.

A mass upgrade program for India's Su-30MKI inventory is already at least five years past due. Any further delay in favour of chasing the mirage of greater performance should be dismissed outright.
 

Aswin_hht

New Member
Registered Member
A mass upgrade program for India's Su-30MKI inventory is already at least five years past due. Any further delay in favour of chasing the mirage of greater performance should be dismissed outright.
As far as I know, they are moving forward with the GaN AESA for Su-30MKIs but yeah investing in a brand new technology would be a double edged sword as delay (which is very reasonable when delving in a new field of technology) could further delay the upgrade program for many more years. If I'm right India's initial plan of keeping the MKIs in service until 2040 has been modified and now they are expected to be in service even past 2050, maybe that could be a reason behind the investment in GaN based system.
 

gelgoog

Brigadier
Registered Member
As far as I know, they are moving forward with the GaN AESA for Su-30MKIs but yeah investing in a brand new technology would be a double edged sword as delay (which is very reasonable when delving in a new field of technology) could further delay the upgrade program for many more years. If I'm right India's initial plan of keeping the MKIs in service until 2040 has been modified and now they are expected to be in service even past 2050, maybe that could be a reason behind the investment in GaN based system.
This is just typical India. They do gigantic failed leaps in technology all the time. Composites for the LCA, Kaveri engine, and next might be this GaN AESA on Su-30MKI upgrade. They could have just done the equivalent of the Su-30SM2 upgrade and they would have gotten a much more improved radar, R-77-1, and maybe R-37M firing capability. But whatever.
 

Maikeru

Captain
Registered Member
I am going to say something positive about Tejas here. Much as we all on SDF like to laugh at it, the fact is that, you have to start somewhere. In this respect, Tejas is to India's aerospace industry what the JH-7 was to China's. Yes, it uses a lot of foreign parts (but not second-hand ones like JH-7s RR Spey engines). Yes, it's a long way behind the leading edge of air combat aircraft (as was JH-7 when introduced). However, it does provide some capability and, more importantly, experience in designing and producing an indigenous combat aircraft. The basic design can be and is being improved on and indigenized. In short, this is exactly the way India should be proceeding.
 

gelgoog

Brigadier
Registered Member
The JH-7's Spey engines were licensed designs manufactured in China. They weren't imported. AFAIK there are no foreign parts in the JH-7.

I have nothing against the Tejas per se. But they just went the wrong way about doing it. Too much pie on the sky stuff and then too many imports.
 

Bellum_Romanum

Brigadier
Registered Member
The JH-7's Spey engines were licensed designs manufactured in China. They weren't imported. AFAIK there are no foreign parts in the JH-7.

I have nothing against the Tejas per se. But they just went the wrong way about doing it. Too much pie on the sky stuff and then too many imports.

Too much pie on the sky stuff
What do you expect? Indians in general have this tendency as well as their JUGAAD WAYS.
 

Lethe

Captain
I am going to say something positive about Tejas here. Much as we all on SDF like to laugh at it, the fact is that, you have to start somewhere. In this respect, Tejas is to India's aerospace industry what the JH-7 was to China's. Yes, it uses a lot of foreign parts (but not second-hand ones like JH-7s RR Spey engines). Yes, it's a long way behind the leading edge of air combat aircraft (as was JH-7 when introduced). However, it does provide some capability and, more importantly, experience in designing and producing an indigenous combat aircraft. The basic design can be and is being improved on and indigenized. In short, this is exactly the way India should be proceeding.

India has undoubtedly made significant progress over the lengthy gestation of LCA, and I'm sure that a useful aircraft (Mark 1A) will eventually emerge from this decades-long sausage-making progress. But we should not fall into the trap of assuming that this tortuous path was the only or best one available. The mismanagement goes back decades.

The expertise gained by developing and operating the HF-24 Marut should not have been discarded as it was. The mid-1980s ASQRs that Dassault's consultant engineers dutifully fulfilled should not have been written as they were, resulting in a design with little room for growth and on a razor's edge for weight management, both items that have plagued the project ever since. The weight management issues should have been recognised in the 1990s by robust modelling and testing facilities and the program rebooted or abandoned at that point. Dassault's offer to transfer the entire Mirage 2000 assembly line in the early 2000s should've been taken up and spelled the end of the Tejas project. If it had been, India could today be operating hundreds of affordable and credible Mirage 2000s with a high level of indigenous content and perhaps even have brought Dassault's large Mirage 4000 prototype to fruition, and probably fewer Su-30MKIs that IAF complains about the cost of operating. Even if this had not occurred, the urgency of recapitalising the inventory should have produced a different outcome in the MMRCA context, with plausible "value for money" candidates being F-16, Gripen, or MiG-35, rather than the more expensive Rafale and Typhoon that I believe were shortlisted for a combination of performance and strategic-industrial reasons. That program of course fell flat on its face and IAF is still trying to pick up the pieces. The failures of high-level oversight, rigorous engineering practices, and clear-eyed appreciation of what is and is not possible in relevant timeframes and at acceptable costs are clear.
 

Aswin_hht

New Member
Registered Member
This is just typical India. They do gigantic failed leaps in technology all the time. Composites for the LCA, Kaveri engine, and next might be this GaN AESA on Su-30MKI upgrade. They could have just done the equivalent of the Su-30SM2 upgrade and they would have gotten a much more improved radar, R-77-1, and maybe R-37M firing capability. But whatever.
To be honest, India does make steady progress through these ways so can’t complain. Even compared to a decade ago things were a lot worse. There are definitely massive room for improvements though.SM2 would’ve been an obvious upgrade path, I think initially the idea was to go with irbis and al-41 then they choose the indigenous path after the war started.

If I’m right India already used the r-77-1s with their mkis but not the R-37M.
 
Top