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Chandragupt

Junior Member
Registered Member
In terms of engines India has yet to even show ability to make AL-31 by license. The F414 which Indian is trying to import is one of the worst among the American lineup, it is 2 generations behind their best and in terms of sophistication can only match the basic unupgraded WS-13.

Should this engine be used, it does not bode well for a plane to be designed around such inferior engines. India should have better aimed for acquiring a license production of AL-41 or even tried to talk Russia into Izd 30, although the latter seems unlikely.

An interesting thing is that India always want to use 2 engine fighters instead of single engine ones, even when such as in this case they end up paying heavily for it because the only ones that sell small engines intend to sell only outdated ones.

What is the reason a single engine fighter using AL-41 is not pursued?

MOD EDIT: Deleted escalatory statement, JF-17 comparison
Russian engines are not reliable that’s the reason why india doesn’t use single engine Russian jets
 

Lethe

Captain
Russian engines are not reliable that’s the reason why india doesn’t use single engine Russian jets

Aside from importing and producing well over a thousand MiG-21s/23s/27s and Su-7s, India does not use single-engine Russian jets.

Let us be realistic: the main reason India has not inducted any newer single-engine Russian aircraft is because Russia has not developed any such aircraft.
 

Chandragupt

Junior Member
Registered Member
Aside from importing and producing well over a thousand MiG-21s/23s/27s and Su-7s, India does not use single-engine Russian jets.

Let us be realistic: the main reason India has not inducted any newer single-engine Russian aircraft is because Russia has not developed any such aircraft.
Yes both India and Russia learned that single engine Russian jets are crash prone and that’s the reason why India didn’t use Russian engine in LCA Tejas
 

Lethe

Captain
Yes both India and Russia learned that single engine Russian jets are crash prone and that’s the reason why India didn’t ise Russian engine in LCA Tejas

Every pre-4th generation aircraft has absurd crash statistics by modern standards. India's experience of aircraft falling out of the sky on a regular basis is because India is just about the only nation that persisted with such antique aircraft at high operational tempos into the modern era. Everyone else either moved on, or barely flies at all. It is not a failing of the MiG-21 or of Soviet engineering, but of the IAF and Indian bureaucracy.

The LCA, of course, is not crash prone because it does not fly. It is the NASA approach to development as distinct from SpaceX.

Likewise, Kaveri has failed because there are still only single-digit number of engines in existence with very few operating hours, poor domestic testing facilities and no desire to use them. Kaveri was not tried and failed, it was tried and ran into some difficulties and just gave up and now scream for endless "ToT" instead of working to improve what is available.
 

Chandragupt

Junior Member
Registered Member
Every pre-4th generation aircraft has absurd crash statistics by modern standards. India's experience of aircraft falling out of the sky on a regular basis is because India is just about the only nation that persisted with such antique aircraft at high operational tempos into the modern era. Everyone else either moved on, or barely flies at all.

The Tejas, of course, is not crash prone because it does not fly. It is the NASA approach to development as distinct from SpaceX.

Likewise, Kaveri has failed because there are still only single-digit number of engines in existence with very few operating hours, no application, poor domestic testing facilities. Kaveri was not tried and failed, it was tried and then ran into some problems and just gave up and now scream for endless "ToT" instead of working to improve what is available.
No matter how many times you say that Tejas doesn’t fly but the reality is that The TEJAS was inducted into squadron service in the IAF in 2016 and has successfully completed over 10,000 hours of flight testing and squadron flying without a single crash.
C2CA0A88-70B8-4421-B1C4-489647648963.jpeg
Look at this beautiful aircraft what a beautiful piece of engineering looks so perfect
 

Abominable

Major
Registered Member
No matter how many times you say that Tejas doesn’t fly but the reality is that The TEJAS was inducted into squadron service in the IAF in 2016 and has successfully completed over 10,000 hours of flight testing and squadron flying without a single crash.
View attachment 104758
Look at this beautiful aircraft what a beautiful piece of engineering looks so perfect
Right, so why are the squadrons that supposedly inducted the Tejas located all the way in south India? Why not replace one of the frontline squadrons that are currently equipped with mig-21s?
 

Lethe

Captain
No matter how many times you say that Tejas doesn’t fly but the reality is that The TEJAS was inducted into squadron service in the IAF in 2016 and has successfully completed over 10,000 hours of flight testing and squadron flying without a single crash.

Sorry, to be clear my point is that over the past thirty years it has not been flying in the sense of having airframes in service with each accumulating >100 flight hours/yr. Today and going forward, yes, the aircraft "is flying". As more aircraft are produced and cleared to full operational envelope, there will be crashes. This is to be expected. Elevating safety record to top priority will not advance India's interests. India can afford crashes, what it cannot afford is stagnation borne of unwillingness to take risks and "do". LCA was ready to fly for 12 months prior to its first flight but nobody was willing to authorise it. This is the kind of mentality that needs to change.

Look at this beautiful aircraft what a beautiful piece of engineering looks so perfect

Tejas looks attractive from some angles, less so from others. I would not say it is a particularly attractive aircraft, but it is not ugly either. Lengthening the fuselage for Mk. 2 will improve the appearance.
 

Chandragupt

Junior Member
Registered Member
Right, so why are the squadrons that supposedly inducted the Tejas located all the way in south India? Why not replace one of the frontline squadrons that are currently equipped with mig-21s?
I think it has been deployed but there are only two squadrons (MK1 block) in service as of now rest of the other squadrons will be of MK1A block formation of which will start 2024 onwards
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