Indian Military News, Reports, Data, etc.
- Thread starter bd popeye
- Start date
Zool
Junior Member
@berserk It's clear that India is working on various programs at a fundamental research level, with degrees of funding and success, but what is rare to see and what India here and elsewhere gets called out for, is these 'indigenous' systems record of production and field service. All of the recent posts read like research papers. Nothing to show for manufacturing and deployment.
For example, the title of your own article source reads as a question:
Is LRDE developing an Ultra-Wideband (UWB) AESA Radar for AMCA?
But if you dig into the article and the systems the author references to credit the development work leading up to an UWB AESA, you will find that those systems are developed from Israeli electronics (being directly purchased or licence manufactured by the Indian DRDO).
Arudhra MPR seems to be based on Israeli EL/M-2084 and the Swordfish LRTR on Israeli EL/M-2080. So while yes, these two ground based radar systems are in limited service (they are not mass produced, nor would you expect them to be based on function), they don't exactly point to Indian self-sufficiency in the full loop research, design and manufacture process.
You also have the case of the EL/M-2248 (MF-STAR) as India's answer to a modern ship based AESA system. One would think, given the extra space available for cooling etc, that if India was really in the position of developing and manufacturing AESA systems today, it would start with ground based and then ship based deployment, followed by airborne systems. But even with the long lead times in ship construction, India is not deploying its own AESA but again buying Israeli. Why?
UTTAM is an interesting project because it's been under development for some time, although I have yet to see any photographs that indicate airborne testing has occurred (nose cone photo on some test-bed aircraft etc). This may be the best example of an Indian attempt at a local AESA system that could see actual manufacture and deployment at some real scale, but I do believe it is largely based on existing Indian exposure to Israeli electronics (fair enough, start somewhere) and is still a ways off. I have seen some Indian posts saying UTTAM will be deployed on the Tejas MK1A, but assuming the order for 83 ever comes through <and we can leave that continuing fiasco for another time>, everything I've read points to the, you guessed it, Israeli EL/M-2052 as radar of choice. And again, if India is ready to go with these type of systems and moving on to more advanced research like GaN, why isn't any manufacturing and deployment happening?
So when you have some Indian's saying AMCA will be a 5.5 Gen (whatever that means) aircraft outmatching the F-35 and J-20, without having left the drawing board, or having visible local systems like the above in scale manufacturing to support it, people don't accept at face value articles and posts that talk about Indian research into this or that. They want to see something real.
Not to divert the point, but while we can all speculate about the efficiency of Chinese AESA systems, based on just not knowing (very difficult to find English literature/specs) or prejudice because it comes from China, they have real-world deployment across all fields. And they are innovating in areas where others have not, for example Quantum systems. Western Intelligence confirms the existence of their Quantum satellite among other things, so its not something that can be written off. Its tangible. Which is what people want to see from India.
For example, the title of your own article source reads as a question:
Is LRDE developing an Ultra-Wideband (UWB) AESA Radar for AMCA?
But if you dig into the article and the systems the author references to credit the development work leading up to an UWB AESA, you will find that those systems are developed from Israeli electronics (being directly purchased or licence manufactured by the Indian DRDO).
Arudhra MPR seems to be based on Israeli EL/M-2084 and the Swordfish LRTR on Israeli EL/M-2080. So while yes, these two ground based radar systems are in limited service (they are not mass produced, nor would you expect them to be based on function), they don't exactly point to Indian self-sufficiency in the full loop research, design and manufacture process.
You also have the case of the EL/M-2248 (MF-STAR) as India's answer to a modern ship based AESA system. One would think, given the extra space available for cooling etc, that if India was really in the position of developing and manufacturing AESA systems today, it would start with ground based and then ship based deployment, followed by airborne systems. But even with the long lead times in ship construction, India is not deploying its own AESA but again buying Israeli. Why?
UTTAM is an interesting project because it's been under development for some time, although I have yet to see any photographs that indicate airborne testing has occurred (nose cone photo on some test-bed aircraft etc). This may be the best example of an Indian attempt at a local AESA system that could see actual manufacture and deployment at some real scale, but I do believe it is largely based on existing Indian exposure to Israeli electronics (fair enough, start somewhere) and is still a ways off. I have seen some Indian posts saying UTTAM will be deployed on the Tejas MK1A, but assuming the order for 83 ever comes through <and we can leave that continuing fiasco for another time>, everything I've read points to the, you guessed it, Israeli EL/M-2052 as radar of choice. And again, if India is ready to go with these type of systems and moving on to more advanced research like GaN, why isn't any manufacturing and deployment happening?
So when you have some Indian's saying AMCA will be a 5.5 Gen (whatever that means) aircraft outmatching the F-35 and J-20, without having left the drawing board, or having visible local systems like the above in scale manufacturing to support it, people don't accept at face value articles and posts that talk about Indian research into this or that. They want to see something real.
Not to divert the point, but while we can all speculate about the efficiency of Chinese AESA systems, based on just not knowing (very difficult to find English literature/specs) or prejudice because it comes from China, they have real-world deployment across all fields. And they are innovating in areas where others have not, for example Quantum systems. Western Intelligence confirms the existence of their Quantum satellite among other things, so its not something that can be written off. Its tangible. Which is what people want to see from India.
Chinese soldier in that armoured vehicle tried to over run an Indian soldier but his vehicle got stuck. Indian soldiers than drag his a** out from that vehicle and beat him to the pulp. While other PLA soldiers being such a brave warriors start throwing stones from a distance.
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You just freeze one moment of the video where the PLA soldiers going down the hill to group.