Indian Military News, Reports, Data, etc.

Deino

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Registered Member
So funny again!

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

And when will they expect them in India? Anyone checked the order-back-log at Dassault?

It will take years before India eventually will get their first M-variant let alone any more from the regular AF-version in case they indeed "order soon" ... and what "soon" means in India is well-known
 

Gloire_bb

Captain
Registered Member
The present air-launched BrahMos missile weighs 2.65 tons, while the BrahMos NG is projected to weigh 1.33 tons. The payload carrying capacity of the Tejas MK1A is 5.3 tons, and for the Tejas MK2, it will be 6.5 tons.
Those numbers by themselves tell little. Like, Tejas Mk2 having 6.5t full payload doesn't make it capable of launching, say, Kh-32, which simply isn't all that much smaller than the whole Tejas.

It only matters if there are (1)suspension points rated for such payloads (with pylon!), (2) payloads can be suspended (ground clearance) and the plane can take off (and, preferably, land) with them safely, and (3)there are no separation problems during launch.

Right now there is an intention that mk2 will be able to carry 2 smaller Brahmos-m(ng). It may or may not come true, and overall seems to be not the best weapon-platform pair to pursue.
 
Last edited:

Atomicfrog

Major
Registered Member
So funny again!

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

And when will they expect them in India? Anyone checked the order-back-log at Dassault?

It will take years before India eventually will get their first M-variant let alone any more from the regular AF-version in case they indeed "order soon" ... and what "soon" means in India is well-known
At least they still have Mig-29k for their carrier fleet. If they wait for the Rafale M or whatever projected Tejas variant, the carriers will need overhaul before having the jets.
 
Last edited:

Pataliputra

Junior Member
Registered Member
Those numbers by themselves tell little. Like, Tejas Mk2 having 6.5t full payload doesn't make it capable of launching, say, Kh-32, which simply isn't all that much smaller than the whole Tejas.

It only matters if there are (1)suspension points rated for such payloads (with pylon!), (2) payloads can be suspended (ground clearance) and the plane can take off (and, preferably, land) with them safely, and (3)there are no separation problems during launch.

Right now there is an intention that mk2 will be able to carry 2 smaller Brahmos-m(ng). It may or may not come true, and overall seems to be not the best weapon-platform pair to pursue.
The Tejas MK1A is 1000 kg lighter than the Tejas MK1, but the targeted weight has not yet been achieved, Tejas is still overweight Further weight reductions are expected with additional modifications. The current GE F-404 engine in the Tejas will eventually be replaced by a more powerful, indigenously developed engine. The payload carrying capacity of the Tejas is projected to should be more than 6 tons, with a combat range of 1000 kilometers in the upcoming blocks.
 

Bellum_Romanum

Brigadier
Registered Member
Entrenched interests have overcome reform efforts, impacting Indian defense policy.20 The pro tempore approach to defense planning, originating from within the system, has led to aimless arming.21 The problems persisted because “reforms are announced, credit taken, and victory claimed without sufficient attention to the institutional challenges” to implementing initiated reforms.22 Due to these systemic debilities, defense reforms remained ad-hoc, incremental, and disoriented.23 The root cause of these problems is the flawed design of the HDO.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

The above quote sums up in my opinion the problem with Indian military discussions and debate both within and from outside India. The notion that any country can just jump atop the military food chain and become both military and economic superpower without adequate SUSTAINED INVESTMENTS in R&D and serious military reforms that takes decades to manifest and eternity to implement are beyond delusional. Not to mention the necessary investments in HUMAN CAPITAL in education qualitatively. What I have read on Indian military literature and its supposed strategy is full of jingoistic pronouncements coupled with unrealistic excited announcements about military programs as if they were already achieved along with retired military officers showering their public at large, especially online, extraordinary claims of their fictious achievements while constantly underestimating and overestimating its enemies Pakistan and now China.

I can only count a handful of times where I managed to read a sober and frank analysis from an Indian people. There maybe more but in today's India such voices are not at all encourage lest they risk to suffer the wrath of their countrymen. It's difficult to glean and source Indian material or western source for that matter in todays day and age since Indian sources are just plain propaganda and they're not even hiding it. While the west seems to be doing its darndest best to puff up and stroke India's ego to ensure it can be used against China so it does not want to write or examine India's actual military critical deficits in military affairs. 2 front war? LOL with what money? where's the investment in defense? IAF that has yet to fulfill its mandated 42 SQUADRONS (current number is 32 SQUADRONS). It's NAVY and Defense minister talks about adding a 3rd A.C. while other military comedians talk about the need to have 6 as if their economy is guaranteed to have a sustainable growth rate of 6% or more for at least 2 decades. When in reality, the most unfortunate truth is that UNEMPLOYMENT, INFLATION are quite rampant with no end in sight. While the growth of its economy can't be denied, the main beneficiary are the wealthy and wealthiest members of the country while the poor becomes even poorer.

No wonder one of the main exports of India is HUMAN CAPITAL OUTFLOW to the rest of the world, whether that's in Western Asia, Europe, Australia, ASEAN country like Singapore, soon Taiwan, North America (U.S. & Canada) creating actual issues within those countries and continents trying to absorb the influx of people from India. Yet, we are told and bombarded on the daily that India is a superpower, an economic global power etc.. There's a sever disconnect from what the media says and the usual propagandists offline and online that do not jive with the reality on the ground.

When can India and Indians at large make an honest appraisal of itself and not just constantly boast and make bold ridiculous pronouncements when 90% percent of the claims never materialize, if at all.
 

Gloire_bb

Captain
Registered Member
The Tejas MK1A is 1000 kg lighter than the Tejas MK1, but the targeted weight has not yet been achieved, Tejas is still overweight Further weight reductions are expected with additional modifications. The current GE F-404 engine in the Tejas will eventually be replaced by a more powerful, indigenously developed engine. The payload carrying capacity of the Tejas is projected to should be more than 6 tons, with a combat range of 1000 kilometers in the upcoming blocks.
Combat range of 1000+ for most aircraft means something like Hi-Hi-Hi subsonic with heavy(also subsonic) fuel tanks and some light strike payload(1-2 bombs or similar), maybe a self-defense jammer.
The lighter the aircraft, the harder it is to achieve those range-payload pairs - because additional margins hit smaller aircraft much harder(just add weight percentages and drag coefficients to small original airframe - and compare it with, say, Su-30MKI, for which even the original a2a air superiority configuration is well over 2t in weapons...and it can reasonably dance with it).

Light aircraft can be in fact quite effectively long-ranged (efficiency matters), but almost exclusively with light a2a payloads...and for many, many decades no one really pursued this "long-ranged light" combination, because big producers didn't bother to do it.
India here is in a particularly weird spot - because it has such a diverse fleet of aircraft, and limited design capability - it can't afford, for example, its own line of dedicated light munitions - only "normal" ones.
Yes, IAF has some stock of superbly suitable Israeli ones - but how much? And against goal of some self-sufficiency(and paying in rupees and not in USD) this optimization for but a part of a fleet clearly comes second.
 

Pataliputra

Junior Member
Registered Member
Those numbers by themselves tell little. Like, Tejas Mk2 having 6.5t full payload doesn't make it capable of launching, say, Kh-32, which simply isn't all that much smaller than the whole Tejas.

It only matters if there are (1)suspension points rated for such payloads (with pylon!), (2) payloads can be suspended (ground clearance) and the plane can take off (and, preferably, land) with them safely, and (3)there are no separation problems during launch.

Right now there is an intention that mk2 will be able to carry 2 smaller Brahmos-m(ng). It may or may not come true, and overall seems to be not the best weapon-platform pair to pursue.
Tejas MK1A can carry two Brahmos NG, Su30MKI can carry 4 Brahmos NG
 

Gloire_bb

Captain
Registered Member
Tejas MK1A can carry two Brahmos NG, Su30MKI can carry 4 Brahmos NG
isn't it 3?
Brahmos-M, while much more reasonable, is still a very heavy missile (heavier than any western tactical weapon other than bunker-busters).

Su-30MKI has only 3 such pylons, central and inner wing stations(the central one on the last 2 squadrons are also rated for much heavier 3t payloads).
 
Top