India incursion and Chinese standoff at Dolam, Bhutan

Jura said:

nah, after whatever barrage/bombardment, Infantry has to come to mop up (I think just that is shown in a part of the vid you posted) ... EDIT I'll leave it at that

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PanAsian said:

If the goal is to hold territory then there has to be infantry mop up at some point, otherwise it's just cat and mouse where "territorial control" is perpetually exchanged.

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Yes, eventually, infantry will have to move in to take territory, but I don't think China will be in any kind of a rush to do so. If all of your weapons outrange the enemies, all you have to do is sit back and hammer him until either he commits by making an offensive movement, expands the conflict beyond the LAC, or retreats. And in a limited conflict at Doklam, or even expanded to the entire LAC, there is no reason for China to be worried about India moving forward in an attempt to capture some territory because China will simply cut the supply lines and decimate the forces that have moved further up the mountain passes.

And most definitely, if the Indian army actually advances into Chinese territory, then it becomes all out war. China will fight a war of attrition with firepower and supply, and not boots on the ground. The bombing campaign will most likely last through the winter. In the springtime, after complete annihilation of the Indian air force and air dominance enforced, with the Indian military out of supplies and overextended, and if India has not already pleaded for peace, then China will launch a multi-front offensive in both Aksai Chin and Arunachel Pradesh to recapture disputed territory.

Video of the rock lobbing incident on weibo.

siegecrossbow said:

Video of the rock lobbing incident on weibo.

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. But if you go there you can see google map says all the land you can see in the video belongs to China actual control. So the issue has changed now that Indian troops are transpassing Chinese land, just the opposite of their propaganda.

China 's Army - Western Theater: New Combat Forces training on Plateau
In any conflict with India China will use their overwhelming firepower and not got bogged down in trench fighting

Chinese Army - Western Theater: Group 77 Army Army West Plateau artillery group day and night live fire shooting

LOL here's the link to what the Kremlin spin doctors created:
Doklam Standoff: Japan Backs India’s Support of Bhutan
11:11 19.08.2017

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Jura said:

LOL here's the link to what the Kremlin spin doctors created:
Doklam Standoff: Japan Backs India’s Support of Bhutan
11:11 19.08.2017

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Did they spin anything? I didn't even read the article but I KNOW that politically, Japan supports India/Bhutan or anyone, for that matter, against China, regardless of whether or not they can find a moral reason to outwardly announce it. The enemy of my enemy is my friend; it's just strategy. But whether or not they are actually able to do anything to back up their support is a whole other story.

That report is inaccurate. There were rumors in Indian media about the Japanese ambassador lending support to Doklam but this was never confirmed by Japan's Foreign Ministry. India seems very desperate to garner international support at this point; even its protectorate Bhutan is very reluctant.



BEIJING, Aug. 18 (Xinhua) -- A Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesperson said Friday that the Japanese ambassador to India should not wag his tongue too freely on the standoff between China and India in the Dong Lang (Doklam) area.

Spokeswoman Hua Chunying told a routine press briefing that there is no territorial dispute in that area and that the nature of the incident is that Indian troops illegally crossed the already delimited Sikkim section of the China-India boundary into Chinese territory.

Japanese Ambassador to India Kenji Hiramatsu said in an interview with Indian media that Doklam is disputed territory between China and Bhutan and no country should use force to change its status.

It is better not to make irresponsible remarks before making clear the facts, Hua said, stressing that it is India, not China, that is trying to create trouble and change the status quo.

She reiterated that the premise and basis for meaningful dialogue between China and India is that India immediately and unconditionally withdraws all troops and equipment that have encroached into Chinese territory.

discspinner said:

Yes, eventually, infantry will have to move in to take territory, but I don't think China will be in any kind of a rush to do so. If all of your weapons outrange the enemies, all you have to do is sit back and hammer him until either he commits by making an offensive movement, expands the conflict beyond the LAC, or retreats. And in a limited conflict at Doklam, or even expanded to the entire LAC, there is no reason for China to be worried about India moving forward in an attempt to capture some territory because China will simply cut the supply lines and decimate the forces that have moved further up the mountain passes.

And most definitely, if the Indian army actually advances into Chinese territory, then it becomes all out war. China will fight a war of attrition with firepower and supply, and not boots on the ground. The bombing campaign will most likely last through the winter. In the springtime, after complete annihilation of the Indian air force and air dominance enforced, with the Indian military out of supplies and overextended, and if India has not already pleaded for peace, then China will launch a multi-front offensive in both Aksai Chin and Arunachel Pradesh to recapture disputed territory.

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That is not how warfare works in the Himalayas. With India's current logistics, an advance to the nearest city, Yadong, would already be exceedingly difficult. China could easily block or destroy the only road connecting Donglang to Shigatse, S204. It could also rush reinforcements from other nodes of transportation in Tibet while India would likely be bogged down in Chumbi valley. My only worry is that India outnumbers China by a staggering factor of 15-20 on the eastern sector. Even placing logistics aside, the sheer manpower might be enough to overwhelm superior Chinese artillery, albeit with very high casualties.

kurutoga said:

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. But if you go there you can see google map says all the land you can see in the video belongs to China actual control. So the issue has changed now that Indian troops are transpassing Chinese land, just the opposite of their propaganda.

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You are right and good spot of the location of the incident. It was once again Indians crossing the line of control.

But, I don't think we should grant google the legitimacy of defining borders even though some times it may show some favorable maps. Google is a commercial company having no legal ground to prove or disprove anything. Secondly, I assume Google has a higher percentage of employees and high rank managers from a certain country or ethnic background who do have a strong influence and bias to what it produce on the map.

Secondly, the precise name of the "border" in the Aksai Chin area is "Line of Actual Control", a disputed border, neither India nor China is settled at it. That is to say, any presence of other side is to be challenged, India can do so, so can China cross that line and still be legal from Chinese claim. We should not get stuck to the line because sticking to that line of control is essentially accept that line to be official border which China does not and rightly should not.

This is what I have proposed/suggested some days ago in a post when this discussion was still in the "Indian military thread". I suggested that China to do something in Kashmir (Aksai Chin is part of it). Back then, I suggested two options, one is China changing posture from "natural" to some kind of supporting Pakistani claim of Kashmir, the other option is China's incursion into the Indian controlled Aksai Chin. What happened now is exactly what I suggested.

Here is a YouTube version of the best quality that I can find. The incident happened on the north bank of the lake. We can see that the Chinese soldiers are on the left (east) side waving red banner, while the Indians wearing white uniforms waving white banner, we can see the banners at 00:20.

I am impressed by the "flying kick" at 00:41 then "knock down" at 01:00. It is a petty that the video stopped soon afterwards, not showing the end of the game just after the Indians began to retreat.

I have no doubt Beijing is figuring it out what are Modi's endgame and expected payouts in India's domestic politics via Donglong standoff.

Even though not much opposition to speak of, still maybe he is setting a trap here to have an unwitting vital player in China to set things in motion for 2019, or for that matter 2024, in his alt-right Hindutva BJP favor, sealing the nature and identity of temporary India. All he needs is one rallying cry to get what alt-right religious Hindutva ideology wants all along, a Hindu Rashtra, a Hindu homeland where Hindu religion, language and culture reign supreme. A war with China, especially the one where India loses and loses miserably, would give him one rallying cry, silencing and crushing anyone questioning in opposition.

Remember, he relishes an image of firebrand Hindutva and let the cities burn for a week. And Hindutva ideologues found a leader in him.