How many fighters does China have?

Totoro said:

I will start this post with an assumption: This new mystery plane will go into service with plaaf and planaf and will become a part of four tier system within plaaf. Heavy twin engined fighter (j20), medium twin fighter (this new plane) and j10b will be the cheap, non VLO platform for lower intensity situations. Alongside that, jh7 and its direct successor will round up the quartet.

That is a wild assumption, i know.

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Wild assumptions are wild. So what's the point? I could also go off the deep end and 'theorize' any random number for a "mystery plane" and it would be just as valid (invalid) as yours.

Totoro said:

Yeah, all this doesnt make much sense, other than to illustrate realistic production rates and total numbers in future fleets as a result of those production rates.

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"Realistic" production rates? Which part of the production "rate" for your mystery plane is realistic? lol

It will be interesting seeing the actual numbers of new planes produced for plaaf/planaf in the next 20 or so years. If no big economic/political changes happen but only gradual rise as seen so far, actual production rates may indeed be enough to sustain a fleet of 1500 modern planes (modern for its time, after 2030.) at any given point.

China's problem is not lack of fighters, but lack of pilot quality. There's a lot of evidences indicating Chinese pilot's annual flight hours are still a lot less than NATO counterpart, although it is improving. Another common problem is that China's doctrine of "keeping everything safe". I noticed there aren't that many real combat simulations, especially lacking dangerous maneuvers and dogfights. Somehow the PLAAF fighter jet exercises gave me impressions of bombers and airlines, just fly around between military airfields. All they seem to do is take off and land, nothing exciting in between.

^^^ Maybe they just didn't let you see the exciting part

Vini_Vidi_Vici said:

China's problem is not lack of fighters, but lack of pilot quality. There's a lot of evidences indicating Chinese pilot's annual flight hours are still a lot less than NATO counterpart, although it is improving. Another common problem is that China's doctrine of "keeping everything safe". I noticed there aren't that many real combat simulations, especially lacking dangerous maneuvers and dogfights. Somehow the PLAAF fighter jet exercises gave me impressions of bombers and airlines, just fly around between military airfields. All they seem to do is take off and land, nothing exciting in between.

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I'm fairly certain you would not be allowed to see any real fighter training scenarios. I'm fairly certain you should be able to understand something so obvious as this. Have you ever seen a real fighter training exercise at Top Gun? No? Oh my god! That must mean the USN is a paper tiger! Somebody call the authorities right now. My tax dollars are going to waste. Give me a break.

I agree with the general view of your comment.. I think man vs man the avg chinese pilot is probably a tad less skillful than USAF/USN pilots however I wouldn;t necessarily call them incompetence. I think outside of NATO they are probably more skillfull or least on par with pilots from other '1st world' countries with maybe the exception of countries like Israel, Singapore and maybe a couple others with established and modern airforces..

Vini_Vidi_Vici said:

China's problem is not lack of fighters, but lack of pilot quality. There's a lot of evidences indicating Chinese pilot's annual flight hours are still a lot less than NATO counterpart, although it is improving. Another common problem is that China's doctrine of "keeping everything safe". I noticed there aren't that many real combat simulations, especially lacking dangerous maneuvers and dogfights. Somehow the PLAAF fighter jet exercises gave me impressions of bombers and airlines, just fly around between military airfields. All they seem to do is take off and land, nothing exciting in between.

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I try to refrain myseilf from commenting on BS. but I have to rebut this BS it is going too far.Now can you tell me who you are to have inside knowledge of Chinese pilot training . Are you membe rof PLAAF?

for many of us who were long time member of this forum and any other forum We know that Chinese pilot undergo 200 to 250 hr /per year training and We have seen the wide spread use of simulator in pilot training So take your BS somewhere else

I read you posting and you contribute nothing to this forum other than making snite remark. This forum is going down the drain because quality people like Plawolf get banned and newbie making disparaging remark against China get encourage

Lately I see people making all kind of unsubstatiated claim without a single shred of proof other than their own prejudice and bias

Yeah, kind of sad that Plawolf got banned, and then CollegeLV got banned too...

Hendrik_2000 said:

I try to refrain myseilf from commenting on BS. but I have to rebut this BS it is going too far.Now can you tell me who you are to have inside knowledge of Chinese pilot training . Are you membe rof PLAAF?

for many of us who were long time member of this forum and any other forum We know that Chinese pilot hae 200 to 250 hr /per year training and We sen the wide spread use of simulator in pilot training So take your BS somewhere else

I read you posting and you contribute nothing to this forum other than making snite remark. this forum is going down the drain becaue quality people like Plawolf get banned and newbie making disparaging remark against China get encourage

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Can you please find any claims to back it up? Red Flag and Top Gun are focused on dogfights. PLAAF has nothing of this nature.

Here are some quotes.

China does not get high marks for using the Su-27SK to its full potential. It is not known to train hard with the aircraft for fear of accidents.

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General Zheng observed that it took the USAF 20 minutes to reload missile to an F-15, while it took the PLAAF as long as three hours to do the same to an F-8II. He was also impressed when the USAF fighters took off in group formation under bad weather, when the PLAAF wouldn't allow in fear of accidents.

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By no mean am I bashing China. Just pointing out area in need of improvements. We all have read posts about PLAAF exercises being more ritualized and going with the flow, instead of actually physically head-to-head competition. I personally have read quite a few articles mentioning the PLAAF needing more realistic simulations, than always just doing everything by the book. They especially mentioned the need for realistic dogfights, since PLAAF barely conducts them, even never, fearing of accidents and damaging the planes. (Having problem finding those right now, but will post them as soon as I see it.)

---------- Post added at 05:14 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:12 PM ----------

Mysterre said:

I'm fairly certain you would not be allowed to see any real fighter training scenarios. I'm fairly certain you should be able to understand something so obvious as this. Have you ever seen a real fighter training exercise at Top Gun? No? Oh my god! That must mean the USN is a paper tiger! Somebody call the authorities right now. My tax dollars are going to waste. Give me a break.

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Come on, be more reasonable. We always see footage of Top Gun and Red Flag, I mean actual footage of them going head to head in dogfights. you can even see them on youtube.

Vini_Vidi_Vici said:

Can you please find any claims to back it up? Red Flag and Top Gun are focused on dogfights. PLAAF has nothing of this nature.

Here are some quotes.





By no mean am I bashing China. Just pointing out area in need of improvements. We all have read posts about PLAAF exercises being more ritualized and going with the flow, instead of actually physically head-to-head competition. I personally have read quite a few articles mentioning the PLAAF needing more realistic simulations, than always just doing everything by the book. They especially mentioned the need for realistic dogfights, since PLAAF barely conducts them, even never, fearing of accidents and damaging the planes. (Having problem finding those right now, but will post them as soon as I see it.)

---------- Post added at 05:14 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:12 PM ----------



Come on, be more reasonable. We always see footage of Top Gun and Red Flag, I mean actual footage of them going head to head in dogfights. you can even see them on youtube.

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Please stop being ridiculous. Please prove to me you are personally privy to the training practices of the PLAAF and PLANAF before you make any more ridiculous statements which YOU cannot back up. It is the providence of the ignorant to assume that because they never personally experienced or saw something, that that thing does not or could not possibly happen. I make no claim about a Chinese Top Gun, but YOU are the one making a claim that Chinese pilots do not train to dogfight. Therefore it is up to you to "find claims to back it up". So go ahead. Back up it. Or stop BSing like we already know you are. Either works for me TBH.