How can CHina catch up with the West when its hands are tied?

Schumacher · Jun 28, 2009

bladerunner said:
...... Meanwhile I'm looking forward to an advertised program by the BBC, evaluating China's possible capability or contribution in helping the world get out of this mess.
Meanwhile I consider China to be comparable to where Amercia was in 1947 in economic development. In 1947 America with a GDP of $234.3 Billion
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( the person on this site got his info from U.S. Department of Commerce, National Income and Product Accounts) virtually bailed out the World with its Marshall Plan. Now I wonder what China can do with its 4 Trillion plus.

Hmm ... making Friedman your information source & now BBC. Well at least it's an improvement but not by much. lol
Looking on per capita basis, I'd actually put China now further back than US in 47 but that only shows how much potential for further advancement.
As for the Marshall Plan, you have to remember the rest of the world outside of US then was literally in ruins & it takes much less to make the world grow by a certain percentage than it does when now for example.
Not to say China is now capable of producing the same effects as the Marshall Plan but note that over the last few months China's stimulus has almost single-handedly doubled or more the prices of resources from oil to copper etc which is a big boost to the resources exporting nations including where you're from. That's an indication of China's influence.

In fact, since 07, China has been the single biggest contributor to world growth. With the lack of growth in the developed world now, China's contribution will only have increased further.

bladerunner · Jun 28, 2009

Schumacher said:
H

mm ... making Friedman your information source & now BBC. Well at least it's an improvement but not by much. lol

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Don't be too quick to judge a program, This one MIGHT have some pretty eminent economists airing their views, which can provide a basis to explore further.

Looking on per capita basis, I'd actually put China now further back than US in 47 but that only shows how much potential for further advancement.

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Out of curiosity, where would you place China in Americas time-line in Economic development? The 1947 chart I looked at had Amercian's disposable per capita income of around $1200 dollars in today's terms. while another source had China's 2006 per capita income at $1740.

crobato · Jun 28, 2009

bladerunner said:
I did acknowledge Friedman's credibility in my earlier posts and even looking at his promos on tube, one cant help but feel that the guys out of touch, but we shouldn't let that detract from the fact that he is voicing an opinion that America may not become a economic basket case, even reading between the lines in walkers interview with 60minutes, suggests that provided America takes preventative action, this situation can be avoided.
The steps that America may take to remedy its precarious situation, may adversely affect China's economic progress.

Wrong. People like Friedman never understand basic things like demographics, something David Walker would understand. To say the US is in its "adolescence" flies against the fact that the greatest fraction of Americans are baby boomers which will be hitting retirement age starting in 2008. a process that will accelerate in the next decade. With that retirement came an incredible burden of entitlements and health care. The reason why GM is bankrupt is because the cost of retirement benefits overwhelms its capacity of revenue, the reason why the new American model of business, as you can see with the IT industry, is design in America, made in China.

People like Friedman are living in their own little fantasy world, with no grasp of globalization, technological, demographics and economic megatrends.

Hendrik_2000 · Jun 28, 2009

bladerunner said:
Schumacher said:

H
Don't be too quick to judge a program, This one MIGHT have some pretty eminent economists airing their views, which can provide a basis to explore further.

Out of curiosity, where would you place China in Americas time-line in Economic development? The 1947 chart I looked at had Amercian's disposable per capita income of around $1200 dollars in today's terms. while another source had China's 2006 per capita income at $1740.

Click to expand...

It is very easy just divide 4.4 trillion dollars by 1.3 billion people work out around $3200(on PPP basis is about $6600) But it is meaningless number because it doesn't take into account PPP and level of subsidy for Housing and Health Care, Tranportation, Fertilizer etc.

It just a number use to denigrate China to 130th in the ranking. But if you ask 1000 of Chinese farmer If they would like to trade places let say with farmer in Mexico or Guatamala. I doubt it if there are many taker

bladerunner · Jun 29, 2009

They really need to do something about their control systems, continuous stories about product quality, and now we have a building/apartment falling over make depressing reading, and reinforces views on poor quality Chinese products.

Hendrik_2000 · Jun 29, 2009

bladerunner said:
They really need to do something about their control systems, continuous stories about product quality, and now we have a building/apartment falling over make depressing reading, and reinforces views on poor quality Chinese products.

bladerunner industrial and building accident happened everywhere in this world. No need to politicize

bladerunner · Jun 29, 2009

Hendrik_2000 said:
bladerunner industrial and building accident happened everywhere in this world. No need to politicize

I would have to disagree with you there Hendrick. Some people may publicize these incidents as a way of mocking China, and others do it because they care for China. I consider myself to be in the second group, and unless one is prepared to talk about it, these scoundrels will think they are getting away with it. A new building collapsing like that is scandalous.

King_Comm · Jun 29, 2009

bladerunner said:
But if you ask 1000 of Chinese farmer If they would like to trade places let say with farmer in Mexico or Guatamala. I doubt it if there are many taker

That's right, in China, eventhough those farmers are poorer than their counterparts in Mexico or Guatemala today, there is hope for them, there is possibility for huge improvements in their living standards in the not too distant future. There is no such hope in Mexico or Guatemala, by playing by the rules developed nations set for them, those countries have effectively sold their future.

Schumacher · Jun 29, 2009

bladerunner said:
They really need to do something about their control systems, continuous stories about product quality, and now we have a building/apartment falling over make depressing reading, and reinforces views on poor quality Chinese products.

That's what usually happens when you rely too much on the likes of BBC or story-tellers about moon rock slingshots as sources of knowledge, losing the ability to make simple sound argument. Resorting instead to cherry picking and dramatization of individual incidents to make conclusion.
What you should do instead is present some basic research on the rate of accidents on China's buildings and compare it with that in other countries.

Engineer · Jun 29, 2009

bladerunner said:
A new building collapsing like that is scandalous.

It didn't collapse, it fell over. The building is actually quite sturdy when you look at the photographs. That being said, something must have been missed when they were designing the foundation.

How can CHina catch up with the West when its hands are tied?

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bladerunner

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