How can and How should PLAN improve it self?

KYli

Brigadier
This is official sources for the ceremony of NEW DDG, which indicated that the new DDG would call 石家庄舰. Since we knew that 115 would call Sheyang, so the only one left will be 116.

海军“石家庄舰”成为我市“流动市土”
2006年01月07日 09:27:36

来源:石家庄日报



吴振华吴显国会见海军“石家庄舰”一行军民共建签字仪式举行

本报讯(记者王伟华)昨天,我市与海军“石家庄舰”在亚太大酒店贵宾楼隆重举行军民共建签字仪式,这标志着 石家庄市自此有了属于自己的一方“蓝色市土”,海军“石家庄舰”有了自己的第二故乡。

人民海军伴随着祖国的强盛,由小到大,逐步发展成为了一支由多兵种组成、初具现代化规模的海上防御力量。以 城市命名的水面舰艇部队,多年来,与相关城市相互支持,相互关怀,奏响了一曲曲“双拥”之歌。

昨天上午,省委常委、市委书记吴振华,市长吴显国亲切会见了海军“石家庄舰”一行。吴振华、吴显国分别讲话 。他们说,以城市名字命名海军舰艇,是人民海军双拥共建活动的伟大创举和成功实践。这次海军“石家庄舰”的 命名组建,是石家庄市人民政治生活中的一件大事、喜事,为我市的双拥工作赋予了新的内容,构建了新的平台, 注入了新的活力。我们要以这次军民共建活动为契机,大力宣传海军“石家庄舰”,全力支持海军“石家庄舰”, 努力续写石家庄市双拥模范城的新篇章。海军“石家庄舰”作为石家庄市地域外的一片“市土”,要充分发挥流动 国土的特点和国际性宣传的优势,积极宣传和打造“石家庄”城市品牌,为石家庄市经济发展和腾飞提供广阔平台 。同时,石家庄市委、市政府为海军“石家庄舰”提供良好的舆论环境和智力支持,为军地间互访交流提供便捷条 件。

市委副书记李遵英在签字仪式上讲话。他代表市委、市政府、石家庄警备区对这次成功的军民共建活动表示热烈的 祝贺,向海军“石家庄舰”的广大官兵致以亲切的问候!他希望海军“石家庄舰”的广大官兵把石家庄市当作自己 温暖的家,军地之间互相支持,互相帮助,携手共进,合作共建,为推动人民海军的现代化建设和地方三个文明建 设做出新的更大的贡献。

海军某部副政委于福山在讲话中说,石家庄市委、市政府带领全市人民“改革牢记国防、致富不忘拥军”,连续五 年荣获“全国双拥模范城”荣誉称号。我海军某部是一支有着光荣传统的部队。近年来,我部“哈尔滨”号、“青 岛”号等军舰通过各种出访活动,广泛开展军事外交,大力宣传祖国的改革开放的巨大成就、宣传他们引以为荣的 第二故乡。如今,海军“石家庄舰”已成为贵市的“流动市土”。真诚期盼石家庄各位领导早日到海军“石家庄舰 ”视察、访问、做客。

市委常委、石家庄警备区司令员刘瑞新主持了签字仪式。副市长马玉文发表了热情洋溢的欢迎辞。石家庄警备区政 委信真、政治部主任郭四平等军地领导,海军“石家庄舰”舰长杜政军、政委李成群等出席签字仪式。军地双方还 互赠了纪念品。
If you look clearly in the first photo, there is a mark of 116. These pictures were showed in ceremony and with few generals, also the TV station broadcast the event. So there are little doubt of credility.
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bd popeye

The Last Jedi
VIP Professional
Golly sez...
wow, I start to feel ready bad....I have no choice than keep posting in manner that seems to detoriate china and its military...
But I seriously think that some of us lives in differnt universe than rest of us

And Seadog
That's how I often feel. Sometimes I just can't let bad info pass as truth. Sometimes BS needs to be called what it is. And yet, it makes it look as though I'm trashing PLAN. And I'm not intentionally doing that. I never start em'. But out of respect for Totoro, Webmaster, and yourself (and heeding your warnings all the same)....I'll refrain

I agree with both gentlemen on this subject. Well said. As I have stated previously I just post from my first hand knowledge of Naval operations. I don't make anything up. I just post facts.

Back to subject
The PLAN needs;
1) Improvement of ASW operations in all aspects.
2) Deticated ASW/SAR helo...see #1.
3) CVBG..Finish the Varyag or build and Invinicble class type ship of about 22,000-25,000 tons. Train a crew and battle group and put it to sea.
4) Quit relying on the Russians for technology. Build Chinese indiginous designs.
 

sumdud

Senior Member
VIP Professional
The basics to improvement:
Better ASW (ASW rocket/missile, dipping/VDS, long range/heavy torpedoes.)
China needs a carrier capable plane first and fore most if she wants to operate a carrier.
Varyag is a good start, and I think that's the size of a carrier China needs. (Catapault technology will be needed for some planes.)
China also needs a ship borne LACM of some sort. (Whether or not China gets a carrier.)
Logistics. (Supply ships, AOEs)
If China wants a blue, traveling navy, then she will...........well........ have to get Taiwan some way or another.
And that means better amphibious forces, LPDs, LCs. (No need for LHA or those things when it's only 160km, LPA is still questionable.)
 

Schumacher

Senior Member
bd popeye said:
I agree with both gentlemen on this subject. Well said. As I have stated previously I just post from my first hand knowledge of Naval operations. I don't make anything up. I just post facts.

.....

Well, your first hand knowledge & what u consider facts may turn out to be just opinions not too different from those u claim to be just making things up.
It's much better to point out the flaws in the posts of u think are wrong by using evidence rather than making a general statement that what others say are made up & what u post are facts. It helps to build up one's credibility this way. :)

Yes, but that will make your post off topic.
 
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isthvan

Tailgunner
VIP Professional
Gollevainen said:
well Aleirgh Burkes do have 'multible' functions and capapilityes but orginally the first punch was build for AAW...after the cold war and dedicated opponents for ASW ships drasticly decreased, the USN had propaply chosen to build mediocorely ASW fittted Filgth II in stead of tryuely replacing Spruances and FFG7s whit modern ASW platform. Most Burkes lack the essential ASW helo facitilities and all units lacks the silent diesels for quiet ASW searchs. Adding some short range medium SSMs in most western ASW and AAW frigates/destroyers have made them look decently 'multipurpose', But they arent match for true ASuW ships of Soviet RKR type ships whit long range, nuclear tipped SSMs....as for example.

But Im sorry that i have to say this to you, as Miggy did post some parts of my PRIVATE message mented for him only, to the public. But i try to make sure that this sort of back stabbing wont happen again in future:nono: :nono:

Well since I don’t mind admit when I’m wrong you don’t have anything to be sorry for…

As for Burks they do have some design flaws (as you said they weren’t meant to be multi role but AAW ships) but later units are close to be true multi role ships… As other good western multi role ship we could use Kidd’s…

Main difference between Soviet and a western design lies in different operational doctrines…
Soviets needed RKR type whit long range SSM because lack of fleets air component and that was only way to attack US CBGs…
On the other hand western navies always look at SSMs as self-defense and not primary attack weapon… They primary role was to protect CBG and to serve as ASW ships…
Good example of soviet specialization is Kashin DDG whit rear-facing SSMs, one of my favorite soviet designs…
I have spend some time researching soviet ship classes and soviet tactics in late 70s and 80s and soviet technological improvements of that time are astonishing…

But since I’m now pretty much OT I have question about Chinese LHD program… Does anybody know something more about China National Shipbuilding’s design and are there any news about possible construction of LHD?
I believe that that design would be essential for improvement of PLAN expeditionary capabilities….
 

Gollevainen

Colonel
VIP Professional
Registered Member
Well the multipurpose capapilityes of the Burkes are mostly result of the outstanding and supreme in US ship desing that has produced suprisingly few 'misshaps'...and those that have spread are mostly due doctrines, rather than operational flops.

But as for Soviet side, a notable detail is the soviets lack of will to rebuild classes of warships. Only occasion was when the Krupny class missile destroyers were rebuild as ASW escorts in the 60's. It prowen to be so risky and tasky job that no such thing was ever repeated for entire class of warships. Some Kashins did recieve some modifications, but usually the modifications become in form of "fligth II"s like whit many missile boats and Krivak class patrol ships. I have always wondered why didn't they put P-150 SSMs to Kashins while the missiles were fielded on nanuchka's at the roughly same period?

but lets not drift any longer to offtopic...maybe a seperate thread in some time for Soviet navy....
 

isthvan

Tailgunner
VIP Professional
Gollevainen said:
Well the multipurpose capapilityes of the Burkes are mostly result of the outstanding and supreme in US ship desing that has produced suprisingly few 'misshaps'...and those that have spread are mostly due doctrines, rather than operational flops.

But as for Soviet side, a notable detail is the soviets lack of will to rebuild classes of warships. Only occasion was when the Krupny class missile destroyers were rebuild as ASW escorts in the 60's. It prowen to be so risky and tasky job that no such thing was ever repeated for entire class of warships. Some Kashins did recieve some modifications, but usually the modifications become in form of "fligth II"s like whit many missile boats and Krivak class patrol ships. I have always wondered why didn't they put P-150 SSMs to Kashins while the missiles were fielded on nanuchka's at the roughly same period?

but lets not drift any longer to offtopic...maybe a seperate thread in some time for Soviet navy....

I had similar questions about some soviet decisions of that time… My guess is that they wonted to test missile on smaller ships and rather put more proven design at Kashins… It’s the only reason that’s makes sense to me…
But like you said we are really OT now…
A could try to open thread for soviet navy for weak or two (I’m currently loaded whit work and don’t have to much time for longer posts:-( )…
 

MIGleader

Banned Idiot
Um roger, the first picture you posted is labelled as a Victor III class SSN. We dont have any credible pictures of the 93(Though really, really wish we did).
 

Roger604

Senior Member
Oops. Mig you're right. But here's some info that might fill in the gaps.



This is from Richard Fisher

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In a 2004 unclassified publication, the U.S. Office of Naval Intelligence (ONI) projected that the Type 094 SSBN would have a submarine-launched ballistic- missile (SLBM) “farm” that is strikingly similar to that projected for the Russian fourth-generation Project 955 Borei SSBN. This raises the possibility that some Russian fourth-generation submarine technologies are also migrating to China.

If this is true, then the Type 094 may be much more advanced than we expected. Plus, if the Russians are offering their best technology for the SSBN, there is no reason why they would not offer their best technology for the SSN.
 
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