Hong-Kong Protests

Wrought said:

What are you talking about judges for? He was released already, which is why he's being sentenced to more jail now.

Actions which continued after the NSL was passed in June 2020. It is not an ex post facto law. The reason 45 criminals, including Joshua Wong, are being sentenced today is because they continued their activities afterwards. Their unofficial primary was conducted in July 2020. If they had quit immediately, they would not be prosecuted. The point was not to be petty and vindictive, like so many netizens want. The point was to restore law and order.

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The guy only did two things in 2020: disband his entire organization after hearing about NSL, and begging Americans to help him escape. All jail time served since 2020 has been for smaller non-NSL charges that predate 2020, like the typical delusional coward he didn't dare do a single thing out of line after learning there will be real consequences.

History is full of brave people who hold onto their convictions their last breath, but to do so require believing in fighting for something greater than one's selfish interest, and the only thing HK protesters and their American masters believes in is fighting for their own selfish interests. Their core beliefs definitionally prohibit bravery.

And no, if China want to be petty he'll have committed suicide Epstein style by now, he should count himself lucky he lives in a civilized country.

iewgnem said:

The guy only did two things in 2020: disband his entire organization after hearing about NSL, and begging Americans to help him escape. All jail time served since 2020 has been for smaller non-NSL charges that predate 2020, like the typical delusional coward he didn't dare do a single thing out of line after learning there will be real consequences.

History is full of brave people who hold onto their convictions their last breath, but to do so require believing in fighting for something greater than one's selfish interest, and the only thing HK protesters and their American masters believes in is fighting for their own selfish interests. Their core beliefs definitionally prohibit bravery.

And no, if China want to be petty he'll have committed suicide Epstein style by now, he should count himself lucky he lives in a civilized country.

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No, I'm afraid you simply have your facts wrong. All 47 defendants were charged with conspiracy to commit subversion. The High Court explained very clearly that Joshua Wong was an active participant in the unofficial primary, and it is for that reason that he is being sentenced. Everything is spelled out in the official case .

D19 Wong Chi-fung

154. D19 is now aged 28. He has a number of criminal records between 2016 and 2023.

155. Mr. Marco Li, together with Ms. Toni Chan, counsel for D19 submitted that D19’s role in the Scheme could be distinguished from other defendants who played a more leading role. Counsel submitted that D19 should be placed in the category of “active participant” for the purpose of sentencing. We accepted that to be the case.

156. We received mitigation letters from the mother of D19, clergy and a former teacher of D19. They all asked for a lenient sentence be passed on D19.

157. We took into consideration the role played by D19 as revealed in the Summary of Facts. In our judgment, the Summary of Facts revealed that D19 was an active participant in the Scheme. He agreed that if he were successfully elected into the LegCo, he would veto the Budgets indiscriminately with others in pursuant to the Scheme.

158. Based on the role of D19 in the Scheme, 7 years (84 months) would be adopted as the starting point. Given the guilty plea of D19, a full one-third discount would be given. It was not raised in his mitigation that D19 committed the offence under a mistake of the law, hence we gave no reduction under this head.

159. Given the criminal records of D19, we did not consider him to be a person of good character.

160. We considered the chronology of D19’s convictions in WKCC 2289/2020, ESCC 2097/2020, DCCC 876,885,890 & 892/2020 and HCMP 585/2020. In our judgment, these matters had no direct relationship to the present case. It should be noted that D19 committed the present offence while he was on court bail. We did not think we should give further reduction because D19 could not have all the offences sentenced in the same proceedings. The sentence we passed on D19 also would not have a crushing effect on him.

161. In conclusion, for the offence D19 stands convicted, he is sentenced to 4 years and 8 months’ (56 months) imprisonment.

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Wrought said:

No, I'm afraid you simply have your facts wrong. All 47 defendants were charged with conspiracy to commit subversion. The High Court explained very clearly that Joshua Wong was an active participant in the unofficial primary, and it is for that reason that he is being sentenced. Everything is spelled out in the official case

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That's the delusional part, they didn't think holding primaries violated NSL, explicitly said so.
Nor does it even has anything to do with Joshua Wong, he didn't organize the primaries, infact he didn't even plan on being in HK when it happened, he was only there because US consulate didn't let him in back in June.

Lastly give me a single person who didn't plea guilty for lighter sentence and I'll give you an iota of bravery, so who did?

iewgnem said:

That's the delusional part, they didn't think holding primaries violated NSL, explicitly said so.
Nor does it even has anything to do with Joshua Wong, he didn't organize the primaries, infact he didn't even plan on being in HK when it happened, he was only there because US consulate didn't let him in back in June.

Lastly give me a single person who didn't plea guilty for lighter sentence and I'll give you an iota of bravery, so who did?

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As noted by the court, he did not play a leading role (hence why he got 4 years instead of 8 or 10) but did actively participate in the scheme. He was still participating in July, after the US rejected him.

And again, as noted by the court, 16 people out of the 47 pleaded not guilty. 2 were acquitted, and 14 were convicted. That's 14 iotas of bravery, by your own admission.

Wrought said:

What are you talking about judges for? He was released already, which is why he's being sentenced to more jail now.

Actions which continued after the NSL was passed in June 2020. It is not an ex post facto law. The reason 45 criminals, including Joshua Wong, are being sentenced today is because they continued their activities afterwards. Their unofficial primary was conducted in July 2020. If they had quit immediately, they would not be prosecuted. The point was not to be petty and vindictive, like so many netizens want. The point was to restore law and order.

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F...k your law and order. If he had committed similar crimes in the U.S. he wouldn't have been able to see the light of day until he's dead.

Have we not seen what happened to those folks that took part in the so-called insurrection against the Capitol? Their sentences were far more severe and less forgiving than what Joshua the roach received from a supposed authoritarian hellhole.

Joshua Wong is not a brave person; he was a delusional supremacist (Hong Konger is better than the lowly rats of mainland) that thought the U.S. could and would act with impunity in Hong Kong, China and that the government would be paralyzed to do anything about it, let alone bring harm to him the self-appointed "future leader" of the democratic Hong Kong.

I mean, Netflix had a doc about their seditious movement as it was taking place in real time. How did the propagandists even manage to time their documentary about the whole seditious activity ahead of time to plan and prepare for their propaganda ready to be broadcast at the ready.

Most Asians, especially separatist leaning Hong Kongers thought of themselves special and view the west/U.S. with great admiration and hold their power in an almost infallible view. It's not a surprise that there were so many folks that came out to support and lend hand to their umbrella separatist movement and many of them wanting to take centre stage vying for the face and leader of the movement.

If the Chinese had an assassination program (ala the Chinese civil war vs the KMT) where people within the organisation could not even dare to trust each other due to paranoia, and still these folks like Joshua Wong came out in droves ready to die for their beliefs then by all means, that's bravery.

That toothpick twig looking prick has nothing on those folks (KMT/CPC) that readily died for their beliefs and for country. Joshua Wong and his ilk thought they could have their country on the cheap by shouting slogans and appearing in front of Congress begging for attention ready to be used against the motherland.

Wrought said:

As noted by the court, he did not play a leading role (hence why he got 4 years instead of 8 or 10) but did actively participate in the scheme. He was still participating in July, after the US rejected him.

And again, as noted by the court, 16 people out of the 47 pleaded not guilty. 2 were acquitted, and 14 were convicted. That's 14 iotas of bravery, by your own admission.

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The only active decision he could and did make were disband his organization and try to escape, he couldn't refuse to "actively participate" even if he wanted to by that point.

See, the problem with anyone who work with Americans is Americans don't work with anyone they can't control, and by definition those who will allow themselves to be controlled by Americans are incapable holding any belief or principle other than self interest. You have to find a Hong Kong protester that's not pro-American for there to be bravery, are there?

And please do list the 14 names and what they plead guilty of doing, let's see what they did that they bravely stand for.

iewgnem said:

The only active decision he could and did make were disband his organization and try to escape, he couldn't refuse to "actively participate" even if he wanted to by that point.

See, the problem with anyone who work with Americans is Americans don't work with anyone they can't control, and by definition those who will allow themselves to be controlled by Americans are incapable holding any belief or principle other than self interest. You have to find a Hong Kong protester that's not pro-American for there to be bravery, are there?

And please do list the 14 names and what they plead guilty of doing, let's see what they did that they bravely stand for.

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I literally gave you the court document? All of the names are listed there, as well as in many news articles. But since you need everything spoonfed to you, here are the 14 names.

• Ng Ching-hang
• Cheng Tat-hung
• Yeung Suet-ying
• Pang Cheuk-kei
• Ho Kai-ming
• Wong Pik-wan
• Sze Tak-loy
• Ho Kwai-lam
• Chan Chi-chuen
• Chow Ka-shing
• Lam Cheuk-ting
• Leung Kwok-hung
• Or Yiu-lam
• Yu Wai-ming

The charge is identical for all of them, and the 31 who pleaded guilty. Conspiracy to Commit Subversion contrary to NSL 22(3), section 159A and 159C of the Crimes Ordinance.

I get a feeling that most of the Rioters/Protesters were not actually expecting to be prosecuted or severely jailed since HK has been so soft with them in the past or had a fantasy that the West would eventually negotiate for them. Why else would you come out to "play" and have hkpf/ptu/raptors arrest you and face 3-7 years for rioting? I think they thought it was all a game that they can "respawn" until they started getting real jail sentences for the 2019 events in December 2020. I remember Agnes was still making youtube mocking the system up to before her sentencing. She pretty much shutup after that... and has still remain mostly quiet.

Wrought said:

I literally gave you the court document? All of the names are listed there, as well as in many news articles. But since you need everything spoonfed to you, here are the 14 names.

• Ng Ching-hang
• Cheng Tat-hung
• Yeung Suet-ying
• Pang Cheuk-kei
• Ho Kai-ming
• Wong Pik-wan
• Sze Tak-loy
• Ho Kwai-lam
• Chan Chi-chuen
• Chow Ka-shing
• Lam Cheuk-ting
• Leung Kwok-hung
• Or Yiu-lam
• Yu Wai-ming

The charge is identical for all of them, and the 31 who pleaded guilty. Conspiracy to Commit Subversion contrary to NSL 22(3), section 159A and 159C of the Crimes Ordinance.

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I didn't ask what they were charged with, I asked what they actually did. Head roach pleading not guilty is a lot different than the kitchen cook pleading not guilty isn't it?

iewgnem said:

I didn't ask what they were charged with, I asked what they actually did. Head roach pleading not guilty is a lot different than the kitchen cook pleading not guilty isn't it?

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Read the document. Every name has its own section with a breakdown of the activities and the sentence for it.