Hong-Kong Protests

ChongqingHotPot92 said:

Well national identity construction (basically a story telling myth) usually involve a combination of improvements in material wellbeing, military victories against perceived enemies, and a self identity that is deemed both unique by the majority of the nation and worth passing down to the next generation. For HK, the dilemma is that the city really improved remarkably in terms of material wellbeing under British rule. So for HKers’ memories, wealth equals being second class citizens in the British Empire, so no wonder they cry for the Queen. Yet, HK’s experience during WWII (massacre committed by the Japanese), along with refugees escaping the PLA during the Chinese Civil War, also makes most HKers self-identity as culturally Chinese (not British due to their status as colonial subjects as opposed to British citizens), but only somewhat related to the Republic of China as opposed to the newly established PRC in 1949. And of course, HK’s economic growth stood in contrast to the PRC’s failed Great Leap Forward and Cultural Revolution. During much of the 1980s and 1990s, HK was far more developed and took a leadership in China’s overall economic reform. One can argue that for much of the recent history, there is little reason for HKers to identify with and be proud of the PRC. If there were a China for HKers to identify with, it would be the KMT-led ROC (ultimately held out against Japan, albeit in a pyrrhic victory, unlike the Brits who were defeated by the IJA in the battle of HK) To recap, HK gained its wealth under British rule during the Cold War despite NOT being equal to British citizens. And much of the HK population were made of folks who did not benefit from the early years of the PRC, if not outright victims. So HK’s Chinese identity has been quite a dilemma for Beijing. In another words, it is difficult to come up with a story to persuade HKers that the PRC (CCP-led party state) is their righteous overlord, unless Beijing could somehow allow HKers to accumulate even more wealth and opportunities (much more than what the Brits brought to HK) by trading with Mainland. The Shenzhen shopping phenomenon is a positive sign for stability and willingness of HKers to engage with Mainlanders in a pragmatic way, but much more needed to happen in order to address HKers’ identity crisis. Also, with the whole U.S.-led geo-economic containment of the PRC, it is hard to HK to gain additional wealth (and for average HK folks to feel a surge of opportunities) by a huge margin.

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TK3600 said:

HK is a win. But I do want to point out some constructive critcism. Things like school textbook alt history brainwash is entirely avoidable. This seem to suggest some kind of blindspot on education. Conversely couple years ago in mainland there was outrage how textbook was extremely vulgar. Clearly nobody was checking its contents. While the government never fail to correct problems, prevention is the best cure. There need to be more attention on education materials. It should be always strictly inspected. This deny NGO of similar methods to brainwash people.

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siegecrossbow said:

Is this real?

View attachment 126716

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GiantPanda said:

Either you are very young or simply do not grasp the divide between Blue and Yellow in HK that had been there for generations.

The majority of Hong Kong was pro-China in the 1960s, 1970s and 1980s when it was actually under British rule. All you need to see this are the movies from that period. Especially the martial films.

The generation of self-haters we saw burning HK actually grew up post Handover in 1997. They grew up during the prosperity that China provided HK that came with the Chinese entrance into WTO in 2001. China was mainly hands off which was what, unfortunately, actually led to the disdain from these Yellows who thought it was their proximity to white Westerners that gave them this wealth. They didn't live under the British at all.

But the Blues were always in the majority. And yes they were mainly older. The people who lived under UK rule. The only reason why the HK Police were able to crack down on the young miscreants without much bloodshed was the support from the Hong Kong's Blues -- the part of the population that had always saw themselves as Chinese.

People going to Shenzhen and Guangzhou didn't have change of hearts. They are mostly from the group that was always close to China. The difference is now there are far less of the pro-White Yellows around to hinder closer integration with the Greater Bay Area.

Most of the Yellows had already left for England or the West and those that remain would never foot in China. If you understand the divide, Yellows would not even attend Blue businesses in HK never mind go to Shenzhen.

Hong Kong will be okay because the Blues are in ascendent and you have leaders like John Lee actively pushing integretion.

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GiantPanda said:

But the Blues were always in the majority. And yes they were mainly older. The people who lived under UK rule. The only reason why the HK Police were able to crack down on the young miscreants without much bloodshed was the support from the Hong Kong's Blues -- the part of the population that had always saw themselves as Chinese.

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hamaoka123 said:

Can someone translate this? I genuinely am inept at reading this.

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ChongqingHotPot92 said:

Well if you got 2 million people shutting down the city, I don’t think the Blues had the majority back in 2019. However, what recent experience shows is that HKers have become much more pragmatic after June 2020. On the one hand, when the White Paper movement broke out across China in November 2022, few protested in HK, showing they no longer identify with the pro-democracy brethren in the Mainland (similar to Taiwanese seeing the pro democracy movement in China as no longer their own issue). On the other hand, HKers realised that they need to survive and do business with Mainlanders. They also understand that if the they and the US-led allies ever push Xi into a corner, Xi could simply lash out and put an end to HK as it is. HK is not Taiwan and does even stand a fighting chance should the Party order a massive purge (property seizures, an official end to One Country Two Systems, mass executions in the name national security, all would be possible if the CCP were to be cornered and embargoed internationally). The PRC’s wartime laws allow the PLA to execute anyone deemed obstructing war efforts. Should the Party declare a state of war/emergency for whatever reason, HKers, Taiwanese, Shanghai liberals/capitalists, Chinese with international families, Chinese working for foreign firms, intellectuals, etc. would be prime targets of suspicion. Some could be shot if evidence of obstruction of war efforts or espionage were found. HKers know that, so the last thing they want now is for anyone to push Xi into a corner. Nonetheless, such pragmatism does not have to be in conflict with their own deeply-held beliefs and pro-Anglo identities.

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ChongqingHotPot92 said:

Well if you got 2 million people shutting down the city, I don’t think the Blues had the majority back in 2019. However, what recent experience shows is that HKers have become much more pragmatic after June 2020. On the one hand, when the White Paper movement broke out across China in November 2022, few protested in HK, showing they no longer identify with the pro-democracy brethren in the Mainland (similar to Taiwanese seeing the pro democracy movement in China as no longer their own issue). On the other hand, HKers realised that they need to survive and do business with Mainlanders. They also understand that if the they and the US-led allies ever push Xi into a corner, Xi could simply lash out and put an end to HK as it is. HK is not Taiwan and does even stand a fighting chance should the Party order a massive purge (property seizures, an official end to One Country Two Systems, mass executions in the name national security, all would be possible if the CCP were to be cornered and embargoed internationally). The PRC’s wartime laws allow the PLA to execute anyone deemed obstructing war efforts. Should the Party declare a state of war/emergency for whatever reason, HKers, Taiwanese, Shanghai liberals/capitalists, Chinese with international families, Chinese working for foreign firms, intellectuals, etc. would be prime targets of suspicion. Some could be shot if evidence of obstruction of war efforts or espionage were found. HKers know that, so the last thing they want now is for anyone to push Xi into a corner. Nonetheless, such pragmatism does not have to be in conflict with their own deeply-held beliefs and pro-Anglo identities.

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coolgod said:

I think this is real, I recalled rumors Agnes Chow was doing some sexual stuff for money a while ago.

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